The disease of alcoholism...

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

the self-medication debate is a long one.

did the depression leading to drinking, or did the drinking lead to depression? or did depression lead to drinking which led to worse depression?

Is this person who has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder who uses meth really a bipolar person who uses meth, or just a meth-user who looked bipolar to someone?

Is this schizophrenic who comes in psychotic and cocaine-positive.....is he psychotic because he used the cocaine (and will wear off quickly), or is he psychotic just because (needs hospitalization)?

The analyst types might argue about some deep neurosis that is attempting to be squelched by alcohol. And that the alcohol drinking behavior isn't a disorder unto itself.

I could give numerous more examples. You could probably google "comorbid substance abuse" or "dual diagnosis" and get a lot of information.

Well said.

Is there a school of thought that calls smoking addiction or eating disorders a "disease?" If not why not.

[Archaea]

Do "diseases" which are not based upon an invasive pathogen behave similarly to diseases arising from invasive pathogens?

I recognize we classify invasive versus noninvasive pathogens as diseases, but is the path identical for the two branches?

[OhioBlue]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Well said.

Is there a school of thought that calls smoking addiction or eating disorders a "disease?" If not why not.

Yes, absolutely. In fact, going strictly by the definitions presented earlier in this thread, some have argued that same-sex attraction is also a disease.

Just goes to show you that calling something a disease doesn't necessarily lead anywhere of practical significance.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by OhioBlue

Yes, absolutely. In fact, going strictly by the definitions presented earlier in this thread, some have argued that same-sex attraction is also a disease.

Just goes to show you that calling something a disease doesn't necessarily lead anywhere of practical significance.

You were answering CatBlue about eating disorders. I hope you are not suggesting that calling eating disorders diseases is unwarranted.

Pulled this from emedicine:

The mortality rate in anorexia nervosa is 10-20%. Overall, 50% of patients recover completely. Another 20% remain emaciated, 25% are thin, and 5-10% remain overweight or die of starvation.

[OhioBlue]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

You were answering CatBlue about eating disorders. I hope you are not suggesting that calling eating disorders diseases is unwarranted.

Pulled this from emedicine:

Haven't I made myself quite clear yet? Whether its warranted or not is hardly my concern. When I have a client in front of me who is eating less than 500 calories a day on top of at least 2 hours of hard exercise, purging daily, who is experiencing chest pains, hair loss, amenorrhea, etc, the last thing on either of our minds is whether or not we should call it a disease. We do... so what? We don't....so what? The call for help doesn't end with a label. "Yeah, so you have a pretty bad disease, go get yourself some fluvoxamine and I'll see you in a month."

I can't think of many more ways to try to make my point.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by OhioBlue

Haven't I made myself quite clear yet? Whether its warranted or not is hardly my concern. When I have a client in front of me who is eating less than 500 calories a day on top of at least 2 hours of hard exercise, purging daily, who is experiencing chest pains, hair loss, amenorrhea, etc, the last thing on either of our minds is whether or not we should call it a disease. We do... so what? We don't....so what? The call for help doesn't end with a label. "Yeah, so you have a pretty bad disease, go get yourself some fluvoxamine and I'll see you in a month."

I can't think of many more ways to try to make my point.

What was your point again? That telling someone with Anorexia that they do not have a disease is the equivalent to telling that someone that they do?

No greater value is to be placed on the one approach or the other?

I think I'll pass on that philosophy.

Doctors treat disease. Folks with anorexia are not put in the ICU for their non-disease.

If you are not interested in thinking of any human condition as disease, just say so. So we know what we are dealing with.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by OhioBlue

Haven't I made myself quite clear yet? Whether its warranted or not is hardly my concern. When I have a client in front of me who is eating less than 500 calories a day on top of at least 2 hours of hard exercise, purging daily, who is experiencing chest pains, hair loss, amenorrhea, etc, the last thing on either of our minds is whether or not we should call it a disease. We do... so what? We don't....so what? The call for help doesn't end with a label. "Yeah, so you have a pretty bad disease, go get yourself some fluvoxamine and I'll see you in a month."

I can't think of many more ways to try to make my point.

At this point he either isn't listening or is being intentionally obtuse. From where I'm sitting he is successfully antagonizing you. I know, hard to believe.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

At this point he either isn't listening or is being intentionally obtuse. From where I'm sitting he is successfully antagonizing you. I know, hard to believe.

If it's not a disease, does your health insurance cover it?

If it's not a disease, do you see a doctor for it?

OhioBlue, you are the one challenging conventional wisdom by saying that these things don't matter. That the word "disease" is arbitrary. That, I suppose, we should not teach patients that the word "disease" applies to these conditions.

And please don't descend into your "I'm not going to talk to you because you never change your mind about anything" little rant.

Now if you are saying that YOU don't care if it's a disease or not, and that you are not advocating that others take your view, that's different. I know lots of people who do things and believe things I don't agree with.

And so we come to the point that you are saying "this is my view and I don't care about the distinction" when you in fact began by challenging by "polite company" assertion.

So which is it? That this is your personal view or that this is not a view that is hard to defend among educated people? And if its the latter, maybe you could start by actually stating your case.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Well said.

Is there a school of thought that calls smoking addiction or eating disorders a "disease?" If not why not.

There is a diagnosis for "nicotine depedence." So yes, it is coded as a medical disease/condition.

Yes eating disorders are also classified as diseases.

Bulimia nervosa
Anorexia nervosa
Eating disorder Not Otherwise specified.

http://www.psychiatryonline.com/content.aspx?aID=3610