Topics you never hear at Church

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

When it comes to porn you couldn't be more wrong. There are fewer things out there more evil that are specifically designed by the Adversary to destroy the Family and destroy an individual's self worth.

Porn as you know comes in a variety of hardcore forms that lead to some of the worst evil around.

Can't there be a variety of experiences, just like alcohol?

For some, it can be pernicious (not my experience), and destructive. For others, it can a mild irritation or distraction. I understand why leaders urge all to stay away, just as I understand why we have the absolute recommendation to abstain from alcohol, so that the weakest amongst us, will have allies.

Yet, I am aware of persons that peruse it, have reasonably functional marriages and are successfully in business.

Apparently, your experience is of the pernicious kind.

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Can't there be a variety of experiences, just like alcohol?

For some, it can be pernicious (not my experience), and destructive. For others, it can a mild irritation or distraction. I understand why leaders urge all to stay away, just as I understand why we have the absolute recommendation to abstain from alcohol, so that the weakest amongst us, will have allies.

Yet, I am aware of persons that peruse it, have reasonably functional marriages and are successfully in business.

Apparently, your experience is of the pernicious kind.

I completely agree with this. The last time I looked at porn was about 7 years ago. It was like the Discovery Channel with humans. There is nothing about it that seems the least bit addictive. I understand alcohol addiction and I understand drug addiction, but I just don't understand how someone can actually become addicted to porn. Maybe I'm just naive.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

I completely agree with this. The last time I looked at porn was about 7 years ago. It was like the Discovery Channel with humans. There is nothing about it that seems the least bit addictive. I understand alcohol addiction and I understand drug addiction, but I just don't understand how someone can actually become addicted to porn. Maybe I'm just naive.

First, I don't intend for this to veer off into a self-sustained harangue by MW about what is an addiction. Call it what you will, but I am referring to the repeated use of such materials.

Second, I agree with Arch also. Just as with any self-destructive behavior some people have the problem, some people don't. I don't like cigarettes. Never have and never will. No interest whatsoever. No one in my family, including those who haven't been inside any church for many years, smokes. Does this mean that anyone claiming cigarettes cause health problems are chicken littles? Of course not. So it is here. I am glad that you have no problem with porn. I have seen others that do, however, and it does cause problems.

Third, the point you and others raised that drew me into this thread was the idea that the porn problem is overstated or non-existent because you (and others) just don't see the negative effects of this problem. Again, I am glad you have avoided it but I can also tell you that I am aware of persons who have had serious and permanent disruptions in their lives as a result of porn usage.

Fourth, and this is not factual but purely opinion, I believe it acts as a barrier to greater spirituality. It tends to degrade rather than uplift and it tends to make base rather than make holy. (SIEQ's and tooblue's distinction between porn and nudity is not hard to grasp, btw, and I am certainly not talking about art.) This is not the type of influence I choose to have in my life or my family's life. Arch's choice of words is very illuminating: "I am aware of persons that peruse it, have reasonably functional marriages . . ." I certainly like to think that my goal for my marriage is more than mere reasonable functionality. Given the many barriers to a successful marriage, I choose to avoid this one and would suggest others do so also.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by creekster

Arch's choice of words is very illuminating: "I am aware of persons that peruse it, have reasonably functional marriages . . ." I certainly like to think that my goal for my marriage is more than mere reasonable functionality. Given the many barriers to a successful marriage, I choose to avoid this one and would suggest others do so also.

I agree with all your points. My only reason for limiting factors is that I'm not aware of anybody with more than a reasonably functioning marriage. It's not the standard to which I had hoped, but it is about all I can expect.

Again, my marriage is not beset with porn addiction, but perhaps internet sports board addiction.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I agree with all your points. My only reason for limiting factors is that I'm not aware of anybody with more than a reasonably functioning marriage. It's not the standard to which I had hoped, but it is about all I can expect.

Again, my marriage is not beset with porn addiction, but perhaps internet sports board addiction.

I was hoping you wouldn't take my comment that way. I certainly don't mean to suggest that avoiding porn makes a marriage perfect. But I do feel pretty confident in saying that in most cases it doesn't really help.

[FarrahWaters]

Originally Posted by creekster

First, I don't intend for this to veer off into a self-sustained harangue by MW about what is an addiction. Call it what you will, but I am referring to the repeated use of such materials.

Second, I agree with Arch also. Just as with any self-destructive behavior some people have the problem, some people don't. I don't like cigarettes. Never have and never will. No interest whatsoever. No one in my family, including those who haven't been inside any church for many years, smokes. Does this mean that anyone claiming cigarettes cause health problems are chicken littles? Of course not. So it is here. I am glad that you have no problem with porn. I have seen others that do, however, and it does cause problems.

Third, the point you and others raised that drew me into this thread was the idea that the porn problem is overstated or non-existent because you (and others) just don't see the negative effects of this problem. Again, I am glad you have avoided it but I can also tell you that I am aware of persons who have had serious and permanent disruptions in their lives as a result of porn usage.

Fourth, and this is not factual but purely opinion, I believe it acts as a barrier to greater spirituality. It tends to degrade rather than uplift and it tends to make base rather than make holy. (SIEQ's and tooblue's distinction between porn and nudity is not hard to grasp, btw, and I am certainly not talking about art.) This is not the type of influence I choose to have in my life or my family's life. Arch's choice of words is very illuminating: "I am aware of persons that peruse it, have reasonably functional marriages . . ." I certainly like to think that my goal for my marriage is more than mere reasonable functionality. Given the many barriers to a successful marriage, I choose to avoid this one and would suggest others do so also.

I think this is well put. This reminds me of a post I read (on a local message board ) about a husband's addiction to pornography. This woman felt degraded that her husband was constantly looking at porn, so she decided to make herself "more available" to him, so he wouldn't feel the need to seek other outlets. She said that after having sex twice that day, he woke her up at 3 a.m. wanting to do it again. Since she was really tired (she had a newborn baby at the time and had been up already), she said no. He immediately got up, turned on the computer in their room, watched some porn and "took care of himself" right in front of her. On the outside, I'm sure they appear to have a reasonably functional marriage.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by FarrahWaters

I think this is well put. This reminds me of a post I read (on a local message board ) about a husband's addiction to pornography. This woman felt degraded that her husband was constantly looking at porn, so she decided to make herself "more available" to him, so he wouldn't feel the need to seek other outlets. She said that after having sex twice that day, he woke her up at 3 a.m. wanting to do it again. Since she was really tired (she had a newborn baby at the time and had been up already), she said no. He immediately got up, turned on the computer in their room, watched some porn and "took care of himself" right in front of her. On the outside, I'm sure they appear to have a reasonably functional marriage.

there are selfish partners on both sides no doubt.

There are some that availability means more than a couple a times per year. Unfortunately, no happy medium.

[RockyBalboa]

Wow...NS...you honestly don't believe someone gets addicted to porn.


Wow.....I have no response for that. If you don't believe it or can't see it then nothing I can or could say would reverse your thinking on that.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Can't there be a variety of experiences, just like alcohol?

For some, it can be pernicious (not my experience), and destructive. For others, it can a mild irritation or distraction. I understand why leaders urge all to stay away, just as I understand why we have the absolute recommendation to abstain from alcohol, so that the weakest amongst us, will have allies.

Yet, I am aware of persons that peruse it, have reasonably functional marriages and are successfully in business.

Apparently, your experience is of the pernicious kind.

Of course there can be a variety of experiences, but to believe that someone cannot become addicted to porn is incredibly naive.

I've seen porn destroy more marriages in the Church than drinking or drugs. Ask ANY Bishop what they've seen destroy more marriages in the Church...Porn, drinking or drugs.....and the BIshop will tell you Porn.

Porn is a complete tool of the Adversary specifically designed to destroy families and ones own self worth.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

Of course there can be a variety of experiences, but to believe that someone cannot become addicted to porn is incredibly naive.

I've seen porn destroy more marriages in the Church than drinking or drugs. Ask ANY Bishop what they've seen destroy more marriages in the Church...Porn, drinking or drugs.....and the BIshop will tell you Porn.

Porn is a complete tool of the Adversary specifically designed to destroy families and ones own self worth.

Well, is anecdotal experience how we should set policy, or should it be set based on sound sociological evidence and studies. I would wager, money, and alcohol have ruined far more marriages than a man's misuse of pornography.

There is a thing such as sexual addiction. Chemical changes do result in men who consume pornography.

And although we like to simplify everything in terms of an us versus them battle, methinks we give Lucifer far too much credit for our own shortcomings. People create these things. The last time I looked at scripture, Lucifer never received a body.