The Departed

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Adam

I don't think this system works. I think it promotes lying and false fronts. I think it prevents people who need help from getting help. Secrecy is antithetical to Zion.

The secrecy system works if what you are looking for is the "all is well in Zion" appearance, the Julie Beck facade of combed hair and pressed pleats. But the underside is the pressure to live up to the false standards thus put forth, resulting in our Prozac Pollyanna crisis.

Sure, the secrecy probably gives many the cover to confess their sins to the Bishop. As if they had a jar of the salve of the Savior in the top drawer to spread on their sores.

We gain greater amounts of secret confession. We lose Zion, the ability to mourn with those that mourn and the blessing of comforting those who stand in need of comfort. Do we really value the former greater than the latter?

I am not convinced the system works effectively towards the goals of the Church at all.

You would probably be interested in my two tier system for members. The orthodox and non-orthodox members. One group wouldn't be better than the other, they would just believe differently. No one would have to fake the "all is well in zion", because someone who everyone knew drank beer, gambled and wore blue shirts was also someone who was well.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by Adam

I don't think this system works. I think it promotes lying and false fronts. I think it prevents people who need help from getting help. Secrecy is antithetical to Zion.

The secrecy system works if what you are looking for is the "all is well in Zion" appearance, the Julie Beck facade of combed hair and pressed pleats. But the underside is the pressure to live up to the false standards thus put forth, resulting in our Prozac Pollyanna crisis.

Sure, the secrecy probably gives many the cover to confess their sins to the Bishop. As if they had a jar of the salve of the Savior in the top drawer to spread on their sores.

We gain greater amounts of secret confession. We lose Zion, the ability to mourn with those that mourn and the blessing of comforting those who stand in need of comfort. Do we really value the former greater than the latter?

I am not convinced the system works effectively towards the goals of the Church at all.

I hear what you are saying but what is the solution? Would people still share their secrets if they weren't confident they couldn't be revealed to others?

[splitbamboo]

Originally Posted by BYU71

You would probably be interested in my two tier system for members. The orthodox and non-orthodox members. One group wouldn't be better than the other, they would just believe differently. No one would have to fake the "all is well in zion", because someone who everyone knew drank beer, gambled and wore blue shirts was also someone who was well.

Can't really see how a tiered system would not have a "better than the other" look and feel.

Also, do you have two Bishops or one? Orthodox or not? Imagine a non-orthodox Bishop...

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I hear what you are saying but what is the solution? Would people still share their secrets if they weren't confident they couldn't be revealed to others?

Solution is acknowledgement of acceptability of orthodox and non-orthodox members. Therefor if you drank wine with dinner, you wouldn't have to keep it a secret.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by splitbamboo

Can't really see how a tiered system would not have a "better than the other" look and feel.

Also, do you have two Bishops or one? Orthodox or not? Imagine a non-orthodox Bishop...

I think all the leadership has to be Orthodox. They just don't try to make the non-orthodox become orthodox. I can see the trouble though. Adults can handle it, however I doubt orthodox parents want their children associating with the non-orthodox or hearing that non-orthodox is an OK way to be.

[DrumNFeather]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Solution is acknowledgement of acceptability of orthodox and non-orthodox members. Therefor if you drank wine with dinner, you wouldn't have to keep it a secret.

Wouldn't that in essence lead the "church" down a Catholic road?

[8ballrollin]

Originally Posted by Ceteris Paribus

Sorry, wrong Meldrum: (http://www.bookofmormonevidence.org). Rod gave our presentation. Don't know if they are related.

I don't find this funny in the same manner SU does, but I did chuckle that he lists his "district leader responsibilities" from his mission on his CV. lol.

http://www.bookofmormonevidence.org/page.php?page=rod

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by DrumNFeather

Wouldn't that in essence lead the "church" down a Catholic road?

Granted it could be a slippery slope. I don't want people who commit adultery or are actively gay feeling like they can come to church and associate with members without feeling a lot of guilt. I wouldn't want people to feel they could come in Levi's or no tie without feeling out of place. I wouldn't want men to show up with ear rings and feel like they belong.

Yea, there could eventually be some problems down the road.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by Adam

This guy needs a serious beating. He actually lists on his CV that he was a district leader on his mission.

In my mission this was a good indication that you had a pulse/could fog a mirror.

[splitbamboo]

Originally Posted by Adam

This guy needs a serious beating. He actually lists on his CV that he was a district leader on his mission.

How about this line:

He has helped many thousands of people prepare physically for the second coming of the Savior, through food storage.