Monson: Gay Marriage Fight in CA 'Is Our Gettysburg'

[creekster]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

If this were so, I wish the prophet could articulate it in a way that was convincing to me, instead of parroting the evangelical talking-points.

It's going to destroy marriage? How?

Ultimately this feels a bit like when my parents said "I have no good reason, just do it because I said so!"

I don't strongly support gay marriage. But I don't really oppose it either.

And for sure, I do not think it is the #1 moral issue of our time.

Pride and riches, the BoM teaches us, is our undoing most of all.

I also wish I could hear a more satisfying explanation, but I haven't and yet the prophet in whom I believe is asking me to act in a certain way. I iwll not lightly discard his counsel.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Why do you have to be down on me, gibbon?

I agree that it is silly. It was not my leading thought, but a TIC response to Indy suggesting that Prop 8 could be a tipping point towards a Soddom & Gomo situation.

technically, you are wrong when you say that nobody has suggested something to the effect. There have been reports both here and on CB of Bishops making remarks from the pulpit that perhaps recent natural calamaties are related to this gay marriage issue.

I suppose you are right, there have been such reports. I appreciate you noting it is a Gibbon, and not a monkey, btw.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

SS teacher

Was this double entendre deliberate?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by creekster

I also wish I could hear a more satisfying explanation, but I haven't and yet the prophet in whom I believe is asking me to act in a certain way. I iwll not lightly discard his counsel.

Maybe if you had a gay son it would be different for you. Maybe it would be hard for you to look him in the eye and say "I hope to God you never marry and I am putting my time and money into the effort to prevent it."

That's the sort of thing some of us face.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Was this double entendre deliberate?

That teacher is one of the biggest influences in my spiritual life. He showed me it was ok to see the world for what it is, shades of gray, and that there is a path of faith through that.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Maybe if you had a gay son it would be different for you. Maybe it would be hard for you to look him in the eye and say "I hope to God you never marry and I am putting my time and money into the effort to prevent it."

That's the sort of thing some of us face.

I understand, and you are not giving me any credit here. As I said, I struggle with this. I have elsewhere said that I think the best approach would be to make all marriages religious and all unions civil. Even so, I think the prophet's cousnel must be carefully considered and not simply ridiculed or ignored.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by creekster

I understand, and you are not giving me any credit here. As I said, I struggle with this. I have elsewhere said that I think the best approach would be to make all marriages religious and all unions civil. Even so, I think the prophet's cousnel must be carefully considered and not simply ridiculed or ignored.

Debate on this board is part of the consideration.

Maybe you aren't giving me enough credit here.

You make the decision that allows you to sleep at night.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Debate on this board is part of the consideration.

Maybe you aren't giving me enough credit here.

You make the decision that allows you to sleep at night.

To the contrary, I am the one giving you full credit. I don't think you are trolling. I take you at your word.

[Levin]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Maybe if you had a gay son it would be different for you. Maybe it would be hard for you to look him in the eye and say "I hope to God you never marry and I am putting my time and money into the effort to prevent it."

That's the sort of thing some of us face.

Maybe if I had a son who was struggling in adolescence with confused sexual inclinations it would be even more important for me. A society that accepts gay marriage condones gay sex, and the social support for what we are to teach our children is broken down.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Doesn't that quote ring a little hollow given that he said it in the middle of the Civil War as thousands of Union soldiers poured their blood into the soil? While he privately cheered on the Confederacy?

It's not like he was saying it before the Civil War.

I would have to go back and look at the timing, but in 1863 many in the union were starting to lose their stomach for the war. Lincoln faced re-election in 1864 and the surprising success of the confederacy on many battlefields left many wondering if the union should just let them go. I think it is perhaps more evidence of the ever pragmatic BY.