Joseph Smith Rings

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by BlueHair

I think there is a misconception that church leaders somehow live a life of poverty. I'm not saying that is what you in particular are implying. My Mission President was called to be a GA and he was asked how much he needed to be paid. He told them what he need and it was given to him. I know for a fact it was over $100,000. I've heard estimates that the Quorum of the Twelve make around $600,000 per year. Since the the church doesn't release any of this information, it would be next to impossible to confirm. I doubt their pay is that high, but I would guess it's high enough to not want to tell the members. I would be stunned if any of them make less than Bronco Mendenhall.

Does that pay figure include travel expenses, for example?

[jay santos]

GA's profiting from book sales and sitting on corporate boards doesn't bother me at all. Especially the apostles. These are guys that generally are already rich. They work their arses off their 60's and 70's and 80's. When do they even have time to enjoy their money?

If Elder Holland writes a book that makes $1M and he splits those profits between himself and Deseret Book, which is owned by the church. And he's dedicated his life to serving the church and isn't spending that $1M lavishly in his retirement, does it even matter?

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I'm not talking about this.

I'm talking about boards of companies that aren't in anyway owned by the church, and have no direct relation to the 3-fold mission of the church.

I actually might be bothered by this. But I can't imagine this happens frequently.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

I find the rings tacky. I find everything about Deseret Books tacky. Personally, it doesn't offend me, but if were a believer I would be troubled that the Church has any connection to Deseret Book. The whole idea of an institution whose sole objective is to profit from someone else's religious belief should be galling to anyone who truly believes. I had a professor who told me once, "You know, I can remember back when the Church was a church and not just a corporation." If I were a member, I'd be very concerned with the direction the Mormon Church is headed.

You know, if you took all the tackiness out of LDS culture it would be like taking all the fat and sugar out of ice cream--you'd destroy its essential character. It isn't out of sheer spite that people in Washington D.C. refer to the DC temple as "Small World" (alluding to the Disney Land exhibit if you don't get it). Deseret Book is a microcosm of LDS culture, which is which it's so successful. Tackiness is appealing to masses of people. Just look at the success of Andrew Lloyd Weber. This is sort of like why when Ute fans profess to be devout Mormons but claim to "hate BYU" it's so funny--they have exposed themselves as on the road to apostacy (the lady doth protest too much).

So I'm not surprised non sequiter finds Deseret Book extremely distasteful. I did my whole life, even when I thought I was a devout Mormon. I loved Sam Weller's and "hated" LDS Book. You see where I wound up.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by BlueHair

I think there is a misconception that church leaders somehow live a life of poverty. I'm not saying that is what you in particular are implying. My Mission President was called to be a GA and he was asked how much he needed to be paid. He told them what he need and it was given to him. I know for a fact it was over $100,000. I've heard estimates that the Quorum of the Twelve make around $600,000 per year. Since the the church doesn't release any of this information, it would be next to impossible to confirm. I doubt their pay is that high, but I would guess it's high enough to not want to tell the members. I would be stunned if any of them make less than Bronco Mendenhall.

Your are woefully misinformed, and your comments are hurtful. General Authorities are given an allowance that pays for housing, car and travel expenses and absolutely nothing more. Any other expenses come directly out of their own or their families pocket, not church funds.

Please stop spreading lies.

Furthermore numerous reputable publications have endeavored to expose the church on such issues and have ONLY EVER reported what I stated above. Any money General Authorties earn while serving are derived from investments or pensions they earned durring their respective careers.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I actually might be bothered by this. But I can't imagine this happens frequently.

Straight from Boyd K. Packer's mouth:

In our free enterprise system, board members have been both employer and employed and have been owners, chairmen, directors, officers, and managers of corporations and have owned and do own stock in business and industry, as all citizens have a right to do. For instance, at the time of his call to the Twelve, one member of the board was serving on twenty-six corporate boards. Some are a little puzzled that such service has continued after their call, thinking it a little too worldly for Church leaders. But such service contributes valuable experience and serves other very important interests of the Church. We are caught between those who think we are not in touch with the world and those who think our keeping in touch with it is somehow wrong. Keep in mind the system of lay clergy the Lord established. We are commanded to remain in the world but not to be of the world.

http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=7071

I'm sure there are others, some likely to be after their call. I seem to have run across it before, but I can't remember the specifics.

Yes, I think it would be a bit out-of-place for an Apostle to be on twenty-six corporate boards. But I have imperfect information, so I will withhold judgement.

[Indy Coug]

I think the Joseph Smith ring is a stupid product, but the mere existence of it, nor the $4.95 in profits that wildly successful idea will generate, gives me reason to worry about the direction of the LDS church and it's 13 million members as a whole.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by tooblue

Your are woefully misinformed, and your comments are hurtful. General Authorities are given an allowance that pays for housing, car and travel expenses and absolutely nothing more. Any other expenses come directly out of their own or their families pocket, not church funds.

Please stop spreading lies.

Furthermore numerous reputable publications have endeavored to expose the church on such issues and have ONLY EVER reported what I stated above. Any money General Authorties earn while serving are derived from investments or pensions they earned durring their respective careers.

Given that Thomas Monson has spent most of his adult life in the employ of the church, what sort of assets and salary would be reasonable?

I'm sure, if we want to, we can look up his IRS tax records. They are part of the public record, I believe.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Straight from Boyd K. Packer's mouth:



http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=7071

I'm sure there are others, some likely to be after their call. I seem to have run across it before, but I can't remember the specifics.

Yes, I think it would be a bit out-of-place for an Apostle to be on twenty-six corporate boards. But I have imperfect information, so I will withhold judgement.

But it looks like his presence on that many boards existed PRIOR to his call to the Twelve, which is different than someone somehow leveraging their calling to get a place on 26 different corporate boards so they could better pursue filthy lucre.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Given that Thomas Monson has spent most of his adult life in the employ of the church, what sort of assets and salary would be reasonable?

I'm sure, if we want to, we can look up his IRS tax records. They are part of the public record, I believe.

Indeed they are, where does one think Time Magazine and Newsweek or any other publication gets their numbers?