It amazes me at how misunderstood

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Perhaps I am just naive or out of it. I just don't see how that is different from us. Family members are excluded from Temple Weddings. Basically it comes down to, you aren't worthy to be with us. Sure we don't call it hell, but what do you think the two lower degrees are. My gosh we even have people who claim if you can't get into BYU and abide by the honor code, you are essentially in hell.

An analogy. The Mormon version of this "exclusion" is a swimsuit calendar. The hard-core Evangelicals is the hardest of hard core porn. I've never met a Mormon who did a 180 degree turn in their attitude towards someone once they found out they were "X". You define what X is.

A co-worker of min in Oklahoma (ORU grad), once he found out I was LDS, I could have said "I'm a pedophile" and the revulsion would have been about the same.

So while the idea or dare I say doctrine may be the same, the attitude and actions are light years apart.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Perhaps I am just naive or out of it. I just don't see how that is different from us. Family members are excluded from Temple Weddings. Basically it comes down to, you aren't worthy to be with us. Sure we don't call it hell, but what do you think the two lower degrees are. My gosh we even have people who claim if you can't get into BYU and abide by the honor code, you are essentially in hell.

I don't believe you've had the unpleasant experience of pure hatred some of these guys spew. Although I've never been around a radical Islmacist, as all of my friends are either materialistic Islmacists or intellectuals, I can imagine the pure, unadulterated hatred evangelicals have spewed my way is very much akin to walking next to an Islamic extremist.

It's as FMCoug describes, they can do a complete turn around from "Oh you look normal let's be friends," to "You are Satan, and abuse children, steal money and bathe with Utes."

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

An analogy. The Mormon version of this "exclusion" is a swimsuit calendar. The hard-core Evangelicals is the hardest of hard core porn. I've never met a Mormon who did a 180 degree turn in their attitude towards someone once they found out they were "X". You define what X is.

A co-worker of min in Oklahoma (ORU grad), once he found out I was LDS, I could have said "I'm a pedophile" and the revulsion would have been about the same.

So while the idea or dare I say doctrine may be the same, the attitude and actions are light years apart.

You are comparing your attitudes with that of a hardcore evangilist you have met. I have had evangelists come to my house and I let them in. They told me I was going to hell, but they did it in a very polite way. As long as someone tells me I am going to hell in a polite way, I am OK with that.

Heck, I have been told I was going to hell by people on CB and they weren't very polite about it.

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by BYU71

You are comparing your attitudes with that of a hardcore evangilist you have met. I have had evangelists come to my house and I let them in. They told me I was going to hell, but they did it in a very polite way. As long as someone tells me I am going to hell in a polite way, I am OK with that.

Heck, I have been told I was going to hell by people on CB and they weren't very polite about it.

I thought what we are discussing is extremists? Certainly there are 10 "normal" people like you describe for every 1 extremist.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by BYU71

You are comparing your attitudes with that of a hardcore evangilist you have met. I have had evangelists come to my house and I let them in. They told me I was going to hell, but they did it in a very polite way. As long as someone tells me I am going to hell in a polite way, I am OK with that.

Heck, I have been told I was going to hell by people on CB and they weren't very polite about it.

The point of the discussion is not whether some are nice or not, but whether the radical fringe is analogous to radical Islam.

As SEIQ shows, we have Christian extremists who thankfully only in rare cases commit violence opposed by the core principles of Christianity.

If somebody thinks I'll end up in the cosmic incinerator, they might be correct. I don't care where they believe I will utlimately spend my hereafter, just how they interact with me. And some with the ardent fervor are incapable of interacting with anything they consider alien or different due to endocentric tendencies.

And discussing religion usually can only occur if you engage a person who discusses it at the intellectual level, not at the emotional level.

[BYU71]

It has evolved to a discussion of extremists. Originally the discussion between Arch and myself was Islamic Terrorists and are they as extreme as evangelicals or vice versa. As with most posts the conversation has evolved.

Lest I be misunderstood, I find our leaders of today to be much more welcoming and understanding of those of other faiths. I don't think that was our history, but I do now.

I find some evangelical leaders to be more limited in their ability to "think" than I consider them vicious. Perhaps I am wrong and they are vicious too, but I just find them pathetically dumb.

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

It's not pleasant but there is a powerful rhetoric involved.

And you're not saved by the virtue of the fact that you know the evils of dancing and playing cards. you're saved because God chose you before the foundations of the earth. (He created everyone else for hell.)

Sounds like old school Calvinism. I thought most evangelicals these days rejected that part of Calvinism.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Originally Posted by BlueK

Sounds like old school Calvinism. I thought most evangelicals these days rejected that part of Calvinism.

Fred Phelps' wild rantings sound like crude Calvinism.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by BlueK

Sounds like old school Calvinism. I thought most evangelicals these days rejected that part of Calvinism.

Huge resurgence.

Of course there's always some confusion over what we mean by evangelicals.

I'm speaking of conservative fundamentalist Christianity, represented by many Baptist churches and much of the non-denominational movement as well.

Most of the mega-churches are based on strict Calvinist doctrine, but not all of the members are educated enough to realize it. Obviously, if you put it to them in the words I used above, most of them will want to say, "I don't believe that." They don't realize the implications of a doctrine of pre-determination.

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

Remember the school prayer case in Texas several years ago. Guess who the plaintiffs were? Unidentified of course, but one family was Catholic and the other LDS.

The Texas school prayer case is an interesting one in that it involved an LDS student. I remember there was a lot of hand wringing by the some of the more conservative posters on CB a few years ago when it was decided by the court. I mean, how could an LDS person take the "wrong" side on this?

Well, as I recall it was the way the prayers were being conducted. The way they did it was to elect a student "chaplain" who would pray before the games or read prayers that other students submitted. It was apparently completely under the control of this "chaplain" what was going to be said in these prayers. Not surprisingly it quickly turned into a bash Catholics, Mormons, Jews and anyone other than Evangelical Christian fest. This naturally stirred things up within the school and some students started persecuting those from the religions bashed in the prayers. When the LDS girl and her Catholic friend submitted a prayer together it was denied. Because it was a school sponsored action by virtue of the fact that not only was it a school event but that the elected chaplain was a student office, it amounted to government favoritism to one religion over others, and thus was ruled unconsitutional as it should have been, IMO.