Without assessing fault or blame

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

"It is not blind obedience, even without total understanding, to follow a Father who has proved himself."

-President Kimball

There are quotes going every which way. I don't use isolated quotes as proof texts. You may follow as you wish, but that doesn't make another's path erroneous, laddie.

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by Archaea

There are quotes going every which way. I don't use isolated quotes as proof texts. You may follow as you wish, but that doesn't make another's path erroneous, laddie.

I offered you an example of prophetic counsel regarding obedience with less than perfect understanding.

You said there was none.

That's all.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I don't need that level of reassurance to accept the Church as possessing necessary power unto salvation and exaltation of men and women.

It also frees you from the least bit of reluctance when openly and regularly criticizing whatever church leader happens to meet with your disapproval.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Tex

It also frees you from the least bit of reluctance when openly and regularly criticizing whatever church leader happens to meet with your disapproval.

One can always count on Tex to make a gratuitous personal attack. Always quick to please, never slow to slam. Lovable Tex all the same.

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by Archaea

One can always count on Tex to make a gratuitous personal attack. Always quick to please, never slow to slam. Lovable Tex all the same.

I saw no personal attack in his post.

He said you often criticize church leaders. You do.

What's the problem?

[Detroitdad]

Originally Posted by Tex

Thus I ask you the same question I asked SIEQ: is it your contention that the current cadre does not "adequately address the issues that are unique to some locales"?

Yes.

Specifically I think that a more diverse leadership would likely result in higher convert retention and the attendant benefits thereof.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Detroitdad

Yes.

Specifically I think that a more diverse leadership would likely result in higher convert retention and the attendant benefits thereof.

The leadership structure of the church is very flat. The leadership of branch presidents, bishops and stake presidents is EXTREMELY diverse.

There is a very high level of contact between General and Area Authorities and these leaders. Concerns from the local leadership are regularly communicated and acted upon by the upper hierarchy of the church.

My dad was a bishop and stake president in Saudi Arabia. He regularly received direct contact from members of the Seventy; giving him counsel on how to deal with the various very unique circumstances that came from trying to lead a stake that was situated in a very spiritually hostile and geographically vast (over 1 million sq miles and 6 countries) region.

The local leaders also are entrusted with a large amount of personal discretion to lead as directed by the Spirit. This is a very empowering feature of church leadership and allows a great deal of flexibility to handle the manifold challenges, including geographic and ethnic diversity. Notwithstanding the valuable counsel my dad received from time to time from members of the Seventy, most of his decisions were made because of his ability to get valuable counsel and direction from God.

Because of the above, the pragmatic additional benefits of having a more diverse upper hierarchy in the church are limited and have been grossly overstated on this board.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

The leadership structure of the church is very flat. The leadership of branch presidents, bishops and stake presidents is EXTREMELY diverse.

There is a very high level of contact between General and Area Authorities and these leaders. Concerns from the local leadership are regularly communicated and acted upon by the upper hierarchy of the church.

My dad was a bishop and stake president in Saudi Arabia. He regularly received direct contact from members of the Seventy; giving him counsel on how to deal with the various very unique circumstances that came from trying to lead a stake that was situated in a very spiritually hostile and geographically vast (over 1 million sq miles and 6 countries) region.

The local leaders also are entrusted with a large amount of personal discretion to lead as directed by the Spirit. This is a very empowering feature of church leadership and allows a great deal of flexibility to handle the manifold challenges, including geographic and ethnic diversity. Notwithstanding the valuable counsel my dad received from time to time from members of the Seventy, most of his decisions were made because of his ability to get valuable counsel and direction from God.

Because of the above, the pragmatic additional benefits of having a more diverse upper hierarchy in the church are limited and have been grossly overstated on this board.

I have nothing to add to this. Well done.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

The leadership structure of the church is very flat. The leadership of branch presidents, bishops and stake presidents is EXTREMELY diverse.

There is a very high level of contact between General and Area Authorities and these leaders. Concerns from the local leadership are regularly communicated and acted upon by the upper hierarchy of the church.

My dad was a bishop and stake president in Saudi Arabia. He regularly received direct contact from members of the Seventy; giving him counsel on how to deal with the various very unique circumstances that came from trying to lead a stake that was situated in a very spiritually hostile and geographically vast (over 1 million sq miles and 6 countries) region.

The local leaders also are entrusted with a large amount of personal discretion to lead as directed by the Spirit. This is a very empowering feature of church leadership and allows a great deal of flexibility to handle the manifold challenges, including geographic and ethnic diversity. Notwithstanding the valuable counsel my dad received from time to time from members of the Seventy, most of his decisions were made because of his ability to get valuable counsel and direction from God.

Because of the above, the pragmatic additional benefits of having a more diverse upper hierarchy in the church are limited and have been grossly overstated on this board.

So flat organizations don't gain benefit from diversity in leadership? I'm just not seeing it.

I'm sure your dad felt like he had flexibility to handle issues in his stake, but no stake president has control over or even much input into issues like:

how to spend media dollars
where to put missionary resources
teaching curriculum
global church policy
doctrinal statements and interpretations
influence over millions of saints not hundreds
authority and position to meet with high ranking government officials
influence on BYU
influence on large scale humanitarian efforts

Isn't it a bit patronizing to tell the "local" leaders, you're good enough and your input is valued at the local level where your sphere of influence is teeny, but us white, Utahns will handle it from there?

[JohnnyLingo]

Frankly I think a few people on this board suffer from White Guilt.