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Archaea · 01-31-2008, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woot

Back when I was dedicating several hours a day to studying the gospel, I remember thinking that my local leaders seemed to have a very superficial understanding of the doctrines. That could have been my pride talking, but it could be the reality of a church that not only insists on a lay clergy, but that also strongly encourages the teaching of only the most superficial doctrines. What need is there for a deeper understanding?

There may be truth to this.

The emphasis is on doing, not thinking within the Church. That may be a proper emphasis, but sometimes doing without thinking gets it wrong.

MikeWaters · 01-31-2008, 10:28 PM

Conviction and action will always come first, in terms of values.

We all know the scriptorian and Mormon history buff who will never be called as a bishop (I would put myself in this category, but I'm not a scriptorian nor a history buff).

Jeff Lebowski · 01-31-2008, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creekster

My wife's family has several black sheep. None of them are either sheep or black, of course.

Yeah, but your family has a black ape.

Archaea · 01-31-2008, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Yeah, but your family has a black ape.

a black monkey with white on its face. maybe he's related to Michael Jackson.

SeattleUte · 01-31-2008, 10:41 PM

Saying that the priesthood ban wasn't racism if people believed or believe it was God's will is like saying human sacrifice isn't first defree murder if the perpetrator believes God willed it. You may believe with all your heart God wanted to withhold LDS priesthood from blacks, but in our society that's still called racism, just like human sacrifice is murder regardless of name, pretext, or genuine motivation.

This is a sicietal value judgment, yes, but if you don't like it go call the priesthood ban something other than racism on another planet. In fact, our enlightened society is so sure of itself in these judgments that for most people the history of the priesthood ban and the LDS Church's associated evasions become a sine qua non of absence of moral or devine authority.

creekster · 01-31-2008, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woot

Is no one going to have a go at my previous question?

I thought I did.

smokymountainrain · 01-31-2008, 10:57 PM

wow. you guys are boring. Let's get to the real meat of this discussion...

If Deron Williams were alive and of age prior to 1978, could he have held the priesthood?

Jason Kidd?

Todd Watkins?

Vlad Guerrero?

Johan Santana?

Pedro Martinez?

Devin Harris?

Clearly this is somewhat lighthearted, but I really do wonder how the church handled either light-skinned blacks ("reds" if you're in da hood) or darker skinned latinos.

Mrs. Pelagius · 01-31-2008, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creekster

Here, Pelagius deftly seized on this point (and would we expect anything less, Chicago Ph.D and all) and avoided such a mess, but I was afraid that it was about to happen again.

Never mind, back to work for me.

I 'm concerned you all know alittle too much about my husband. I was happy to find out my husband was home late for dinner because he was building more of a relationship of tust with all of you

SoCalCoug · 01-31-2008, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Which brings into full focus the gravity of the mantle of the prophet. Even for a man with Monson's experience, one wonders if there is some amount of trepidation.

I actually have a story on this. President Hunter was my dad's stake president when my dad was young (and my grandfather was a bishop under him). Also, at the time President Benson died, President Hunter's step-daughter was in my family's ward.

A week or two after President Benson died, I believe (in any case, within a matter of days), and after President Hunter was sustained as President, he and Sister Hunter came to her daughter's house for a few days (as they did periodically before and after that). Knowing President Hunter personally, as well as being in the stake presidency at the time, my dad was able to spend a little time personally with President Hunter.

They were in the stake center, just my dad, President Hunter, and Sister Hunter (and possibly one or two others, but I don't think so). On the walls in the hallway are pictures of the first presidency and apostles. Whoever was in charge of the building was really on top of things, because they had already changed the pictures to reflect the new first presidency.

My dad said they were wheeling Pres. Hunter down the hallway, and he had them stop in front of the picture of the first presidency. He said it was obviously the first time Pres. Hunter had seen such a picture (or arrangement of pictures), and he just sat there staring at it. He said that from the expression on Pres. Hunter's face, it was clear that it was just really for the first time hitting him the great responsibility that had fallen to him.

Kind of a neat experience for my dad, and kind of underscores your statement, that there certainly is a great deal of trepidation that a new President faces.

creekster · 01-31-2008, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. Pelagius

I 'm concerned you all know alittle too much about my husband. I was happy to find out my husband was home late for dinner because he was building more of a relationship of tust with all of you

I doubt this is really you, as we all know Pelagius was a MONK.

Oh, and I never touched his tust.

01-31-2008, 10:41 PM	#115
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	Saying that the priesthood ban wasn't racism if people believed or believe it was God's will is like saying human sacrifice isn't first defree murder if the perpetrator believes God willed it. You may believe with all your heart God wanted to withhold LDS priesthood from blacks, but in our society that's still called racism, just like human sacrifice is murder regardless of name, pretext, or genuine motivation. This is a sicietal value judgment, yes, but if you don't like it go call the priesthood ban something other than racism on another planet. In fact, our enlightened society is so sure of itself in these judgments that for most people the history of the priesthood ban and the LDS Church's associated evasions become a sine qua non of absence of moral or devine authority. __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster

01-31-2008, 10:57 PM	#117
smokymountainrain Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Eastern Salt Lake County Posts: 544	wow. you guys are boring. Let's get to the real meat of this discussion... If Deron Williams were alive and of age prior to 1978, could he have held the priesthood? Jason Kidd? Todd Watkins? Vlad Guerrero? Johan Santana? Pedro Martinez? Devin Harris? Clearly this is somewhat lighthearted, but I really do wonder how the church handled either light-skinned blacks ("reds" if you're in da hood) or darker skinned latinos. Last edited by smokymountainrain; 01-31-2008 at 11:00 PM.

01-31-2008, 10:28 PM	#112
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Conviction and action will always come first, in terms of values. We all know the scriptorian and Mormon history buff who will never be called as a bishop (I would put myself in this category, but I'm not a scriptorian nor a history buff).