My opinion on the change in the honor code

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I suppose, then, that since you still live in the US and are still paying taxes that you have given up your right to want to change the government. It would be illogical to pay taxes, submit yourself the laws of this country, and then complain about it.

*And we hear the desert signing: status quo! status quo! status quo! Hills and vales and mountains ringing: status quo! status quo! status quo!*

I didn't submit an application to be born in the US.

That said, I'm still free to voice my opinion about the government or whatever else I disagree with, although I will still be held accountable if I don't follow the laws of the country, even if I didn't sign a piece of paper agreeing ahead of time that I would do so.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I suppose, then, that since you still live in the US and are still paying taxes that you have given up your right to want to change the government. It would be illogical to pay taxes, submit yourself the laws of this country, and then complain about it.

*And we hear the desert signing: status quo! status quo! status quo! Hills and vales and mountains ringing: status quo! status quo! status quo!*

Great, now you have "Carry On!" stuck in my head.

I reject the premise of the analogy. A more appropriate comparison is someone who immigrates to America, fulfills all obligations to become a citizen, and then spends the rest of his life excoriating the principles of democracy.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Tex

Great, now you have "Carry On!" stuck in my head.

I reject the premise of the analogy. A more appropriate comparison is someone who immigrates to America, fulfills all obligations to become a citizen, and then spends the rest of his life excoriating the principles of democracy.

George Soros?

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Tex

I'm only pointing out the illogic of deliberately submitting yourself to the rules of an institution you vigorously disagree with, and then complaining about it. It would be akin to me joining the Democrat party and then screaming about why they aren't more like Republicans. It would not be unusual for those around me to look at me and say, "Um, then why are you here?"

That works in theory, but in reality people have a wide variety of beliefs and perspectives, and though the Democrat party might be much more aligned with that person than the Republican party, there still may be some items the person wants to change about the Democrat party.

[Detroitdad]

Originally Posted by Tex

Great, now you have "Carry On!" stuck in my head.

I reject the premise of the analogy. A more appropriate comparison is someone who immigrates to America, fulfills all obligations to become a citizen, and then spends the rest of his life excoriating the principles of democracy.

Just because you agree to abide by something does not mean that you have to like it.

As members of the church, alumni, and students BYU is just as much the institution of people who do not agree with the parameters or existence of an "Honor Code," as it is the Mullahs. Let the two duke it out on the battlefield of ideas.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I didn't submit an application to be born in the US.

That said, I'm still free to voice my opinion about the government or whatever else I disagree with, although I will still be held accountable if I don't follow the laws of the country, even if I didn't sign a piece of paper agreeing ahead of time that I would do so.

Your continued presence implies your consent to the social contract.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by Tex

Great, now you have "Carry On!" stuck in my head.

I reject the premise of the analogy. A more appropriate comparison is someone who immigrates to America, fulfills all obligations to become a citizen, and then spends the rest of his life excoriating the principles of democracy.

Your analogy just underscores my point. It's illogical for a person to want to change the institutions they signup for?

You may be justified in not liking it, but it is perfectly rational.

[mpfunk]

Originally Posted by YOhio

A good number of law schools use ExamSoft, which is what I believe BYU uses. It's unfair to criticize the law school for using a software that is so commonly used.

I didn't mean to criticize BYU just saying that BYU doesn't really trust the students which is fine. From what I have heard about BYU law school, they are well justified in not trusting the students.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

Your analogy just underscores my point. It's illogical for a person to want to change the institutions they signup for?

You may be justified in not liking it, but it is perfectly rational.

It is illogical for a person to spend years pursuing citizenship under a democracy and then criticize its principles, yes.

The principles underlying the Honor Code lie at the foundation of what BYU is about. Just so we don't wander too far from what we're talking about here, let's make sure we know what we're raging against:

1. Be honest
2. Obey the law and all campus policies
3. Live a chaste and virtuous life
4. Respect others
5. Abstain from alcoholic beverages, tobacco, tea, coffee, and substance abuse
6. Encourage others in their commitment to comply with the Honor Code
7. Observe Dress and Grooming Standards
8. Participate regularly in church services
9. Use clean language

Some pretty radical concepts there ... certainly well worth the rancor, don't you think?

From what I have heard about BYU law school, they are well justified in not trusting the students.

Woo hoo! Nice ad hominem there, Funk! Bravo!

You could also just say, "Uncle!"

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Tex

It is illogical for a person to spend years pursuing citizenship under a democracy and then criticize its principles, yes.

No one is criticizing the principles of the institution (by which I assume you mean the LDS church, and SU notwithstanding), they are criticizing the operational application of those principles by bureaucrats who must perpetually justify their existence. I do my best to be a faithful member of the church, and I was a reasonably mellow person at BYU, but I really detested the HCO when they threatened me with academic punishment for having a messy dorm room.