I support the protest of the olympic torch processions

[Indy Coug]

...

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

How do you know that further awareness and scrutiny would not have prevented aspects of the holocaust?

Thanks in advance,
a stupid moron

[creekster]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

How do you know that further awareness and scrutiny would not have prevented aspects of the holocaust?

Thanks in advance,
a mere mortal

How do you know it would have? We are both specualting here, except that I have the benefit of an ineffective boycott in 1980 and of the magnificence of Jesse Owens' performance and its place in history.

In 1936 the holocaust had not yet started, Hitler hadn't even tuned up the troops in Spain. I think you would have a hard time supporting the idea that a boycott would have been anything but symbolic, at the very best, and would have had no effect whatsoever on the later murder of jews and undesireables. By the time Hitler unleashed the blitzkrieg, the events of the 1936 Olympics were a distant memory.

[MikeWaters]

did public ignorance lead to inaction?

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/...SIgnorance.htm

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by creekster

How do you know it would have? We are both specualting here, except that I have the benefit of an ineffective boycott in 1980 and of the magnificence of Jesse Owens' performance and its place in history.

In 1936 the holocaust had not yet started, Hitler hadn't even tuned up the troops in Spain. I think you would have a hard time supporting the idea that a boycott would have been anything but symbolic, at the very best, and would have had no effect whatsoever on the later murder of jews and undesireables. By the time Hitler unleashed the blitzkrieg, the events of the 1936 Olympics were a distant memory.

As you know, many steps were taken against the Jews before the Olympics. Years before. The fact that America came VERY CLOSE to boycotting the olympics should tell you that, at least among some, it was an important isisue.

Also, if you had told people in 1980 during the Olympics boycott, that in a mere 9 years, the Berlin Wall would fall and communism would begin to crumble throughout the world, how many people would have believed it?

[MikeWaters]

Also, ironically, China boycotted the 1980 Olympics because of the USSR's invasion of Afghanistan.

<crickets>

[creekster]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

did public ignorance lead to inaction?

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/...SIgnorance.htm

You are talking in circles. Before you said the decison not to boycott was THIS close, now you suggest we were too ignorant to know better? The boycott would only take place becasue of our knowledge, not to give us knowledge. You don't boycott if you don't knwo what or why you should boycott.

I think the best evidence I have read suggests we knew very well what was going on during the war (note, we are talking about 1940 and after, NOT 1936) but did not make stoping the holocaust a priority.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Also, ironically, China boycotted the 1980 Olympics because of the USSR's invasion of Afghanistan.

<crickets>

in 1980 Sino-Soviet relations were not good. China was not as strong as it is now and was very unhappy to see the USSR push into central asia. It was happy to pile on the uSSR every chance it could.

Besides, are you now saying that we should emulate an act taken by one of the most repressive regimes in the world?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by creekster

You are talking in circles. Before you said the decison not to boycott was THIS close, now you suggest we were too ignorant to know better? The boycott would only take place becasue of our knowledge, not to give us knowledge. You don't boycott if you don't knwo what or why you should boycott.

I think the best evidence I have read suggests we knew very well what was going on during the war (note, we are talking about 1940 and after, NOT 1936) but did not make stoping the holocaust a priority.

the lack of a boycott is barely news. A boycott is huge news. Come on. This is simple.

[MikeWaters]

Interesting. From the organizer of the boycott.

RFE/RL: If you were asked to head a committee to boycott the Chinese Olympics, would you do it?
Ledsky: I would be tempted to. I mean, as a matter of fact, I think the effort in 1980 was a necessary effort, it was a useful effort, and it did have consequences on Russian behavior and their purchase to Afghanistan. So it may be the only tool that the Western world can apply in situations like Burma or Tibet -- but it's not without its effect.

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle...037DB048C.html

[creekster]

[quote=MikeWaters;207771]

As you know, many steps were taken against the Jews before the Olympics. Years before. The fact that America came VERY CLOSE to boycotting the olympics should tell you that, at least among some, it was an important isisue.

What does is this supplsed to mean? Yes, there were preludes ot the holocaust; there was discrimination. But the death camps were not yet in place. I also agree that for some it was an important issue. SO what is your point in this context?

Also, if you had told people in 1980 during the Olympics boycott, that in a mere 9 years, the Berlin Wall would fall and communism would begin to crumble throughout the world, how many people would have believed it?

Are you actually suggesting that it crumbled becasue of the boycott? REally? Explain the causation, if you will. Otherwsie, what is the point you are making?