Black and Mormon

[YOhio]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Pelagius

I 'm concerned you all know alittle too much about my husband. I was happy to find out my husband was home late for dinner because he was building more of a relationship of tust with all of you

lol! Pelagius got busted!

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by creekster

I doubt this is really you, as we all know Pelagius was a MONK.

Like the original, I am bit of heretic. My monkness doesn't preclude a Mrs. Pelagius. (It really was her in case you were wondering)

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by YOhio

lol! Pelagius got busted!

Apparently, saying "I was late for dinner because I was arguing with MikeWaters" in not a good explanation.

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

And often the biggest dumbasses in the ward are the most anxious to share their opinions.

This is the real problem. Those who believe this still are the same ones who quote liberally from "Especially for Mormons" in their sacrament meeting talks and tell 3 Nephites urban legends as if they were the gospel truth.

And then go inactive when confronted with anti stuff because they are too stupid / clueless to understand any of it ... on either side.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by pelagius

Like the original, I am bit of heretic. My monkness doesn't preclude a Mrs. Pelagius. (It really was her in case you were wondering)

IN that case, I am sorry about the tust joke. Please invite her to stay despite my rather rude behavior.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by smokymountainrain

wow. you guys are boring. Let's get to the real meat of this discussion...

If Deron Williams were alive and of age prior to 1978, could he have held the priesthood?

Jason Kidd?

Todd Watkins?

Vlad Guerrero?

Johan Santana?

Pedro Martinez?

Devin Harris?


Clearly this is somewhat lighthearted, but I really do wonder how the church handled either light-skinned blacks ("reds" if you're in da hood) or darker skinned latinos.

I don't think you want to know. I suspect the absurdity of it all helped hasten a change.

[pelagius]

Here is tidbit about pre-1978 priesthood ordinations of blacks (it actually did happen post-1900 and pre-1978):

75. This according to the findings of Jerald and Sandra Tanner, Mormons and Negroes (Salt Lake City, Utah, Modern Microfilm Co., 1970), pp. 12, 16, which contains documentary evidence indicating that Enoch Abel, a son of Elijah Abel, was ordained an elder on 10 Nov. 1900. and that a grandson, Elijah Abel, was ordained a priest on 5 Jul. 1934 and an elder on 29 Sept. 1935. The Tanners also suggested that Elijah Abel's other surviving son, also named Elijah, may have been ordained to the priesthood.

--Neither White nor Black: Mormon Scholars Confront the Race Issue in a Universal Church, Edited by Lester E. Bush, Jr., and Armand L. Mauss.

http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org...4.htm#Chapter4

[MikeWaters]

My understanding is that ANY "black blood" (whatever that is) was enough to prevent you from having the priesthood.

Which became a problem when good latino priesthood holders started working on their geneaology only to find out that they shouldn't have been ordained.

Is scholars can argue over what "blackness" is, imagine 80 year old men in Utah, who probably didn't have a black friend among them, trying to figure out all the dilemmas and conundrums that were arising in the church regarding this issue.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

My understanding is that ANY "black blood" (whatever that is) was enough to prevent you from having the priesthood.

Which became a problem when good latino priesthood holders started working on their geneaology only to find out that they shouldn't have been ordained.

Is scholars can argue over what "blackness" is, imagine 80 year old men in Utah, who probably didn't have a black friend among them, trying to figure out all the dilemmas and conundrums that were arising in the church regarding this issue.

I am almost certain it didn't apply to Brazilian blacks.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I am almost certain it didn't apply to Brazilian blacks.

In 1978, the Church was building a Temple in Sao Paulo, Brasil. At that time there were tens of thousands of Mulatto Mormons in Brasil; people with both white and black ancestry. These people had great faith, and sacrificed much to build the Temple in Sao Paulo; the largest city in Brazil. Many of these people knew that they would be allowed in the Temple, but could not partake of the most important ordinances in them. Yet, they still sacrificed to build it. Seeing the exceeding faith of these Mulatto Saints, the General Authorities of the Chuch, who are called "The Brethren", prayed for months that the Priesthood-ban be finally lifted. On June 1st, 1978, in the Holy of Holies in the Salt Lake Temple, the LORD communicated to President Spencer W. Kimball, and He lifted the Priesthood-ban from off the Hamitic lineage. The vast great majority of Mormons were overjoyed at the news. Only a few weeks later, the first black men of African lineage since Elijah Abel and his descendants were ordained to the Priesthood, and they and their families soon thereafter received the Higher Ordinances of the Temple.

http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/r...k_mormons.html

A much better source is this article, in Dialogue, which I found interesting. It talks about the various issues and responses to those issues in Brazil. Man, the idea of being missionary "race police" is so foreign and disgusting.

http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/doc...CISOSHOW=17664