Now that the LDS Church has raised the

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Gotta disagree on this. The Mormon "death penalty" was the ONLY reason I didn't have sex with my girlfriend that I had all of freshman year. I was dating a girl at an all-girls' school with a funny (but understandable) rule--if you weren't off-campus by 1:00 am, you had to stay in the "guest room" on the dorm floor. And you had to be accompanied by your "host". Sort of an anti-HC, if you will.

Anyway, social pressure does work for some. Whether or not that's a good thing, or a good reason to be going on a mission, is another question.

I agree, I think the social stigma does prevent some pre-marital sex. I would come down on the side that it is a good thing.

On the other hand I will allow for the fact some of this gets taken overboard and then the consequences can be bad down the road. Yes folks, a frigid bitch for a wife can have serious consequences on current and future generations.

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Baptisms are down.

What I heard was that number of missionaries is down but baptisms per missionary is way up even if the total number is down.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by BlueK

What I heard was that number of missionaries is down but baptisms per missionary is way up even if the total number is down.

My problem with the entire situation is that I believe a mission is most important for the missionary him/herself. I think that converting people is one of the least important things a Mormon missionary does on a mission. I think it'd be better to have more missionaries serve and fewer converts per missionary (or even fewer total converts).

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

My problem with the entire situation is that I believe a mission is most important for the missionary him/herself. I think that converting people is one of the least important things a Mormon missionary does on a mission. I think it'd be better to have more missionaries serve and fewer converts per missionary (or even fewer total converts).

I wish somehow the idea was what a great opportunity a mission is. It's like getting the chance to go to Harvard. Not every young man should go to Harvard, but every young man has a chance to go to Harvard type concept.

I know this is just an excuse, but I have two sons who aren't that excited about going to church. Fortunately one has a wife and kids so he makes it now and then, the other never goes.

One of the excuses I hear. I never went on a mission Dad. I just don't feel comfortable there. They play golf with friends who went to more prestigious schools than they did and that isn't a problem for them.

Again, it is just an excuse they pull out, but more than once I have had to explain to them they are just as good a person as their buddy who went on a mission.

As a father I don't like seeing them carry that burden with them.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I wish somehow the idea was what a great opportunity a mission is. It's like getting the chance to go to Harvard. Not every young man should go to Harvard, but every young man has a chance to go to Harvard type concept.

I know this is just an excuse, but I have two sons who aren't that excited about going to church. Fortunately one has a wife and kids so he makes it now and then, the other never goes.

One of the excuses I hear. I never went on a mission Dad. I just don't feel comfortable there. They play golf with friends who went to more prestigious schools than they did and that isn't a problem for them.

Again, it is just an excuse they pull out, but more than once I have had to explain to them they are just as good a person as there buddy who went on a mission.

As a father I don't like seeing them carry that burden with them.

I agree--a mission is a once in a lifetime opportunity. And I think it's not to be missed, even by the the most serious doubting Thomases.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

I agree--a mission is a once in a lifetime opportunity. And I think it's not to be missed, even by the the most serious doubting Thomases.

Is there a perception out there though that the RM is a better person in the eyes of God than the non-RM.

I think it is and that is a generality in our culture that has many holes in it in actuality, IMHO.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Is there a perception out there though that the RM is a better person in the eyes of God than the non-RM.

I think it is and that is a generality in our culture that has many holes in it in actuality, IMHO.

I don't think that most people differentiate between RM and non-RM in the Church. Heck, HW Hunter wasn't an RM. Neither was Steve Young, who seems to handle things fine. I love using that as ammo, even when people say that HW Hunter served at a time when a mission was "less mandatory."

I do think that people often regret not serving on a mission, and I think that sometimes people are made to feel inferior for not serving. That's sad.

Personally, I'm glad I served because the experience enriched my life.

But if someone wants to serve a mission, one can always give it a whirl as a senior citizen.

P.S. I don't believe that Steve Young was a virgin when he got married.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by scottie

Okay so it's in the handbook, but that doesn't change my opinion that the Atonement applies to everyone, and that repentance is what matters, not what sexual mistakes they've made.

I agree the atonement applies to everyone, and said as much.

Originally Posted by scottie

I have. What's your point? Are you saying that section in the D&C is or isn't about missionary work?

The "work" isn't necessarily fulltime missionary work, and a desire to serve God is not the only qualifier.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

I agree--a mission is a once in a lifetime opportunity. And I think it's not to be missed, even by the the most serious doubting Thomases.

This seems a little strong. Unless of course you're going to respond with "Thomas was an apostle".

Even if a mission ends up bringing the greatest benefit back to the missionary, that only happens as a result of the missionary giving himself to something larger. Similar to the fact that happiness can't be found by seeking it; it's a byproduct of a certain life. If we have a bunch of missionaries going out seeking "life experiences", they'll miss them.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

I don't think that most people differentiate between RM and non-RM in the Church. Heck, HW Hunter wasn't an RM. Neither was Steve Young, who seems to handle things fine. I love using that as ammo, even when people say that HW Hunter served at a time when a mission was "less mandatory."

I do think that people often regret not serving on a mission, and I think that sometimes people are made to feel inferior for not serving. That's sad.

Personally, I'm glad I served because the experience enriched my life.

But if someone wants to serve a mission, one can always give it a whirl as a senior citizen.

P.S. I don't believe that Steve Young was a virgin when he got married.

You may be right adn when I get into this better person thing is when I get wrapped up in a debate over whether "every young man a missionary" was a commandment or just good counsel.