03-21-2007, 04:03 AM | #131 | |
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Though the art department, I'm sure, is one which is probably very different from other universities. |
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03-21-2007, 04:08 AM | #132 | |
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As I said, I could be wrong. I haven't been to BYU in years. I do know that the teaching of evolution has been an enormous issue in the past, perhaps it has since changed. I also know that my conversations at BYU were not nearly as open and frank as discussions I had at other universities. Your point about the medical school is well taken, though I never said the lack of a museum was "conclusive proof" that BYU had a problem with paleantology. It is evidence of the issue, nothing more. The difference I see with the medical school is that medical schools cost a fortune. A world class museum would have been relatively inexpensive, would have made lots of money for the university if done correctly, and would have brought additional praise to the university. It never happened, and Oaks' letter to the Board of Trustees implies a concern that it wasn't happening because of doctrinal issues. Not conclusive evidence, but evidence all the same. I don't know why people argue that academic freedom isn't an issue at BYU. Even if it isn't intentional (and I think suppression of at least some discourse at BYU is intentional), the unintentional forms cause some problems too. Anytime you take a relatively homogenous group of students and put them in classes taught by a relatively homogenous group of professors, you are likely to get opinions from a shallower pool of thought. This isn't to say people at BYU aren't smart. They are. Very smart. Probably smarter than the average university. As a result, they can have a decent dialogue without more of a mixed culture, but it could be better. Much better. I don't know what the solution is to the issue, given that BYU will always attract a certain type of person and not others, but it is an odd dynamic for a university. |
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03-21-2007, 04:11 AM | #133 | |
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I understand from informed sources that there are two competing schools of thought as to what kind of a "uiversity" BYU should be--one represented by the Oaks/Lee legacy and the other by the Holland/Bateman legacy. Which is presently ascendant? That Michael Young is Utah's and not BYU's president should be your first clue. The thing about the University of Utah is that you can find anything there that you want to find. It's a big public university with faculty from elite institutions from all over which is common for any major university. They eschew their own graduates in hiring facutly which is also common--they like to hire from above them in the pecking order. The thing to remember about a place like that is that getting a tenure track job at a school at that level is very tough to do. The market is exceediingly competitive just based on supply and demand. The odds of being hired are long even if you have a PhD at Harvard unless you are in a truly special class, and then tenure is an arduous climb. So there aren't any professors that are outright stupid or inept; they're all accomplished people or they wouldn't be there. I can't recall any classes I took where the professors were bad, and there were many that were really rewarding. There are some very bright students there as well for many of the same reasons that bright students wind up at BYU. But the worst thing about it is that it pretty much accepts all applicants. It wouldn't be my first choice for my kids but they could do a lot worse. The university of Utah was a highly rewarding experience in my life and it is an important university, in many ways it's truly the leading university an isolated four state region.
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03-21-2007, 04:14 AM | #134 | |
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Thanks for that link. I enjoy following kids from this part of the country when they head out of state.
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03-21-2007, 04:18 AM | #135 | |
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03-21-2007, 04:18 AM | #136 |
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And Samuelson will leave no legacy at all. What a travesty.
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03-21-2007, 04:19 AM | #137 | |||
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Peace, brother.
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03-21-2007, 04:25 AM | #138 | |
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No, that's not an example. You said you want your kids to attend a university where they seek the truth and can call BS when they see it. I asked for an example of where you were able to seek the truth in your education where it couldn't have happened at BYU. Your example was BYU's decision not to show the Rodin exhibit. I asked you what you learned at your university. Did the U host the Rodin exhibit and did you attend and through attending were you able to seek a greater truth? I'm sure Rodin is taught and discussed and analyzed at BYU in a very similar way is done at other universities. |
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03-21-2007, 04:26 AM | #139 |
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Maybe from the inside it's perceived that way. From the outside, Bateman and Holland represent one thing and Oaks/Lee are in a completely different class. One problem I suppose is that Oaks/Lee caliber scholars and administrators don't grow on trees in LDS culture, but, then again, there was Michael Young and he wound up at Utah, not BYU.
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03-21-2007, 04:28 AM | #140 | |
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Both schools do what they do well. Why is there even an argument here?
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