Masturbation and sex ed

[non sequitur]

Masturbation is a bodily function and no more a sin than sneezing or farting. Heaping guilt on a kid by telling him that masturbation is a sin, is akin to child abuse. I think back on that "little factory" pamphlet that was handed to me when was I was a kid, and it pisses me off that I was fed such a load of horse shit. Frankly, what your son does with his "little factory" is none of your business. If he wants to employ double shifts around the clock, then more power to him. It's his factory; let him run it the way he wants.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by minn_stat

One of my primary lines of thought is to not focus too much on the act itself, but on some of the underlying principles. How it can lead to self-absorption and over indulging one’s appetites, and to the degree it becomes habitual, it begins to chain us.

I’ve also thought of using a grade/GPA simile. Allowing it to become a common occurrence, and a method of dealing with uncomfortable emotions on a regular basis, is like having a 1.5 GPA. Not a good thing, something that could cause you trouble for years to come. But a 3.5 GPA is something to feel pretty darn good about, even if the ideal is a 4.0. I’d certainly not be condemnatory of a 3.5, although I may give some gentle encouragement towards raising it.

Just a brief introduction to some of my musing about the subject.

In human behavior courses in med school, we were taught that masturbation is absolutely normal. In fact, one female psychiatrist told us that it is normal even for married males with an active sex life to masturbate about once a week. I don't know what kind of study this was based on, so she may be full of crap.

I'd teach my kid not to overdo it, and that masturbation is a problem if it becomes an obsession that interferes with normal life, but a little bit of pocket pool here and there is totally normal.

And I still think it's ridiculous for LDS teenagers to feel guilty or talk to the bishop about it.

[BYU71]

Quite frankly I don't like the idea of some adult, even if he is the Bishop talking to kids about the subject. I especially don't like the idea of some Priesthood advisor discussing it around the campfire.

What if you end up with a "mullah" type giving the discussion. One of those that consider a girl in a bikini as porn for instance.

If it is such a serious issue, then Bishops and advisors should be given some good instruction on the issue and then meet with parents and advise them on how to instruct their children on the issue.

Of course, you could have everyone experience what I experienced which was better at curtailing any desire I ever had to masterbate. Have another 14 year old with red hair and freckles tell you about something cool he learned to do and start to demonstrate. That experience stopped me from even holding my wanger when I took a leak for a couple of years.

[minn_stat]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

In human behavior courses in med school, we were taught that masturbation is absolutely normal. In fact, one female psychiatrist told us that it is normal even for married males with an active sex life to masturbate about once a week. I don't know what kind of study this was based on, so she may be full of crap.

I'd teach my kid not to overdo it, and that masturbation is a problem if it becomes an obsession that interferes with normal life, but a little bit of pocket pool here and there is totally normal.

And I still think it's ridiculous for LDS teenagers to feel guilty or talk to the bishop about it.

I pretty much agree with you, but as a side question, what is the scientific basis for calling it "normal"? That it falls within 2 standard deviations of the mean behavior? If so, did they tell you the mean behavior and variability (which, I suppose, is expressed as the number of times individuals masturbate per month, or something like that)? Or maybe that they have conducted a controlled study, and the results are so-and-so, and here are the numbers?

Or is this a non-science based value judgment? If it is a value judgment, what the hell are they doing mixing science with such stuff and teaching it as science?

This can get me pretty steamed at times. I (and other religious people) are often criticized these days as being some dunderhead who believes in angels, men rising from the dead, etc. They ask, why can't I be rationale and scientific, and do away with the nonsense? Yet often, these same individuals/groups/etc have no problem spouting off value judgments that have little to no basis in science, but they happen to be their value judgments, and THEY, of course, are rational, intelligent beings, so we should listen and heed them. So then, for example, they then load guilt galore on kids, because they and their parents are taking more than their "fair share" of the earth's resources, or some other nonsense. But no mentioning of religious-based values is allowed in the schools, heaven forbid.

Sorry, just got me a little excited there, I don't really want to sidetrack the main topic, but it does make one wonder what they meant.

[minn_stat]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Quite frankly I don't like the idea of some adult, even if he is the Bishop talking to kids about the subject. I especially don't like the idea of some Priesthood advisor discussing it around the campfire.

What if you end up with a "mullah" type giving the discussion. One of those that consider a girl in a bikini as porn for instance.

If it is such a serious issue, then Bishops and advisors should be given some good instruction on the issue and then meet with parents and advise them on how to instruct their children on the issue.

So discussions of sexuality are off limits in a church setting? Non-sequiter seems to thinks it should be off limits for parents as well. But we are supposed to be more open about sexuality these days, so it is OK for the school teacher (who, for all it seems in the media these days, is having sex with one or more of his/her students) to discuss these things? Their schoolmates are probably another good source to get it from, I suppose. Or maybe they should be discussing it online with someone who may or may not be a 14 year old, yes? Maybe they can search for the information online? (That must be what all the Google searches in Utah are about, kids just trying to get basic information!)

Although I can certainly appreciate your concerns, and share them to at least some degree, what, exactly, do you propose as the proper way for children to obtain answers to their questions, and to obtain proper attitudes about sexuality? Of course, the ideal is that a proper relationship exists between kids and parents, and that be the primary source, but should there be any supplemental sources? And, of course, the ideal is not always present, so what then? And besides, some parents are pretty screwed up in this area, so maybe government should monitor it, and take over the function, because they are so wise and beneficent?

Frankly, I'd prefer my kids getting it from the bishop than from most of the alternatives, although clearly, there should be some sort of controls and training in place.

[MikeWaters]

I like the idea of the bishop meeting with the parents to tell them his take, his approach, to counsel with the parents how to approach it.

Probably almost never happens though.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by minn_stat

So discussions of sexuality are off limits in a church setting? Non-sequiter seems to thinks it should be off limits for parents as well. But we are supposed to be more open about sexuality these days, so it is OK for the school teacher (who, for all it seems in the media these days, is having sex with one or more of his/her students) to discuss these things? Their schoolmates are probably another good source to get it from, I suppose. Or maybe they should be discussing it online with someone who may or may not be a 14 year old, yes? Maybe they can search for the information online? (That must be what all the Google searches in Utah are about, kids just trying to get basic information!)

Although I can certainly appreciate your concerns, and share them to at least some degree, what, exactly, do you propose as the proper way for children to obtain answers to their questions, and to obtain proper attitudes about sexuality? Of course, the ideal is that a proper relationship exists between kids and parents, and that be the primary source, but should there be any supplemental sources? And, of course, the ideal is not always present, so what then? And besides, some parents are pretty screwed up in this area, so maybe government should monitor it, and take over the function, because they are so wise and beneficent?

Frankly, I'd prefer my kids getting it from the bishop than from most of the alternatives, although clearly, there should be some sort of controls and training in place.

I guess I wasn't very clear.

I don't want sex education taught in school. There I am not afraid of some "mullah" instructing the kids, but some liberal who thinks any kind of experimentation is OK.

I think I said I would like the church leaders, Bishops, SP's or whoever to instruct the parents on how to or the importance of instructing their children. I would call discussing the issue with the parents and how to teach their children a church setting, wouldn't you.

Now, as far as instructing the kids in a church setting other than the thou shall nots, you are right. I don't think church is a proper setting for sex education for children. I think that is a parental responsibility.

If you want to make sure it gets taught, tell the parents they will go blind if their kids masterbate.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I like the idea of the bishop meeting with the parents to tell them his take, his approach, to counsel with the parents how to approach it.

Probably almost never happens though.

If it is really a big deal, it should be a priority for every Bishop to do.

[minn_stat]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I guess I wasn't very clear.

I don't want sex education taught in school. There I am not afraid of some "mullah" instructing the kids, but some liberal who thinks any kind of experimentation is OK.

I think I said I would like the church leaders, Bishops, SP's or whoever to instruct the parents on how to or the importance of instructing their children. I would call discussing the issue with the parents and how to teach their children a church setting, wouldn't you.

Now, as far as instructing the kids in a church setting other than the thou shall nots, you are right. I don't think church is a proper setting for sex education for children. I think that is a parental responsibility.

If you want to make sure it gets taught, tell the parents they will go blind if their kids masterbate.

Sorry, I overreacted. Yes, I agree that the primary focus in a church setting should be the commandments and the general principles involved. Specific questions that might come up present a challenge of their own, however.

Work calls - I've got to run to my conference here in California. I intend to reply with more when I get some time.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by minn_stat

Sorry, I overreacted. Yes, I agree that the primary focus in a church setting should be the commandments and the general principles involved. Specific questions that might come up present a challenge of their own, however.

Work calls - I've got to run to my conference here in California. I intend to reply with more when I get some time.

I hope your conference goes well and look forward to your response.

IMHO, when those specific questions come up, the answer should be, "that is a question you should discuss with your parents."

Flat out I don't want any of the "mullah" thinking types I have noticed on this board or CB telling my kids anything about sex whatsoever. No offense BDB, but I wouldn't want you or herbie telling my kids about your version of appropriate sex from a position of authority. It harms their testimony of leaders when I have to then tell them the leader is full of crap on that issue.