American Religious Identification Survey 2008

[MikeWaters]

Tough economic times, or wide-spread disasters might increase religiosity.

One wonders if times became REALLY tough, if we wouldn't see self-identification as Mormon increase.

There ain't no atheists in foxholes, as they say.

If Joseph Smith had only been able to persuade only poor, uneducated, non-self-starting, helpless people, the LDS movement would not have gone very far. Cults often do exaclty this--attract these sorts of helpless, dependent people. But Mormonism was not like that, and we will be stronger if we can make an appeal to people that can fend for themselves (i.e. pay their rent/mortgage and feed themselves). The person who can't feed himself is not going to lead us to the promised land, I'm pretty confident in saying. Zion needs hands that work, not hands that beg.

We need to turn beggers into workers. But that is tough.

[Levin]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Tough economic times, or wide-spread disasters might increase religiosity.

One wonders if times became REALLY tough, if we wouldn't see self-identification as Mormon increase.

There ain't no atheists in foxholes, as they say.

If Joseph Smith had only been able to persuade only poor, uneducated, non-self-starting, helpless people, the LDS movement would not have gone very far. Cults often do exaclty this--attract these sorts of helpless, dependent people. But Mormonism was not like that, and we will be stronger if we can make an appeal to people that can fend for themselves (i.e. pay their rent/mortgage and feed themselves). The person who can't feed himself is not going to lead us to the promised land, I'm pretty confident in saying. Zion needs hands that work, not hands that beg.

We need to turn beggers into workers. But that is tough.

Brigham Young would love you.

How do we connect to middle class stabilizers when, as a result of modern mass communication and the Internet, they are increasingly skeptical of how we pitch the Gospel?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Levin

Brigham Young would love you.

How do we connect to middle class stabilizers when, as a result of modern mass communication and the Internet, they are increasingly skeptical of how we pitch the Gospel?

What do you mean by "how we pitch the Gospel"?

[Levin]

Originally Posted by Tex

What do you mean by "how we pitch the Gospel"?

I mean tracting; contacting on streets; mail-in Bibles delivered by missionaries. These methods are inherently more successful with people who are in distressed circumstances, with time on their hands, home from work, not busy with other activities.

And of course you're going to say, well that's why members should be inviting friends. But when was the last time your introduced a friend to the missionaries who taught them a discussion?

I don't know what the answer is.

[MikeWaters]

If you look at that report, you will note that the American Christian universe is in great flux, as many more people are affiliating with non-denominational Christian sects, and leaving the old-line denominations. I.e. there is a desire to be religious, but in a less rigid, more free-flowing way. Also perhaps the sense that some of these denominations have become too liberal, have strayed too far from Biblican literalicsm. Anyway, it appears that we are not reaching these people.

We emphasize families in our outreach. But I'm not sure that we really advertise that the LDS denomination itself is a family. These non-denominational one-off churches definitely are pitching themselves as a family. "Strengthen your own family. And join the LDS family".

Why join the LDS church? We have crappy activities, little outreach, bad sermons, and weird beliefs that we hide. Put all this together and it is loser formula. If we are really not that different from any other Chrisitan denomination, why join us? The foolishness of ecunemical desires revealed.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

If you look at that report, you will note that the American Christian universe is in great flux, as many more people are affiliating with non-denominational Christian sects, and leaving the old-line denominations. I.e. there is a desire to be religious, but in a less rigid, more free-flowing way. Also perhaps the sense that some of these denominations have become too liberal, have strayed too far from Biblican literalicsm. Anyway, it appears that we are not reaching these people.

We emphasize families in our outreach. But I'm not sure that we really advertise that the LDS denomination itself is a family. These non-denominational one-off churches definitely are pitching themselves as a family. "Strengthen your own family. And join the LDS family".

Why join the LDS church? We have crappy activities, little outreach, bad sermons, and weird beliefs that we hide. Put all this together and it is loser formula. If we are really not that different from any other Chrisitan denomination, why join us? The foolishness of ecunemical desires revealed.

And maybe that's why our ward has beat the odds.

Our scouting activities are well attended, the youth activities are varied and many, and adult activities, though certainly not first rate, are well-attended. So maybe you have your answer.

[MikeWaters]

You can't spend less than 1% of your donations on activities and expect to put together anything compelling.

But I'm tired of beating this dead horse. Nobody cares about my opinion. Still haven't found the LDS church suggestion box.

Next time an authority comes to chew out the members for their lack of missionary efforts, I may ask him if he brought the suggestion box that I have never seen.

[Levin]

Originally Posted by Archaea

And maybe that's why our ward has beat the odds.

Our scouting activities are well attended, the youth activities are varied and many, and adult activities, though certainly not first rate, are well-attended. So maybe you have your answer.

So the answer is more social conversion. Ironic that we place such an emphasis on it, but it seems we're missing something fundamental there.

I got a chuckle out of the "Strengthen your own family. Join the LDS family." slogan. A little cultish.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

You can't spend less than 1% of your donations on activities and expect to put together anything compelling.

But I'm tired of beating this dead horse. Nobody cares about my opinion. Still haven't found the LDS church suggestion box.

Next time an authority comes to chew out the members for their lack of missionary efforts, I may ask him if he brought the suggestion box that I have never seen.

here's how you get your suggestions going, campaign for leadership positions until you can sit and talk with leadership of significant enough clout that they'll listen. That's about the only way which will work.

And if you remain in an urban ward, you'll rise swiftly in leadership until you start meeting with high ranking leadership.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Levin

So the answer is more social conversion. Ironic that we place such an emphasis on it, but it seems we're missing something fundamental there.

I got a chuckle out of the "Strengthen your own family. Join the LDS family." slogan. A little cultish.

Very few people will stick with something that even though it has certain intellectual or emotional appeal, if socially they don't belong. There are those people who will, but they are the odd ducks or the leaders.

If you want people to come, they must be in a place where they want to come.