Word of Wisdom conundrum

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by Solon

I don't know why such a discipline is supposed to be such a good thing in itself. It would be a lot easier if we had an explanations to go with the rules.

It's hard to argue with the Word of Wisdom's prescience, even if it hasn't held up 100% in the light of modern science, but I personally don't ascribe to the argument that we have to do it to "prove our obedience." I think the moderation approach is the way the WoW worked in the church's first 80 years, but the rules in this area, as well as others have calcified over the past 90 years or so.

The W o W is one of the hardest things for me to explain to friends and co-workers, since the nuts and bolts sometimes don't make a lot of sense (e.g. I can drink Coca-Cola, but not decaffeinated coffee; We're not supposed to have "hot drinks" but iced tea is still out.). I've finally settled on explaining that it's just a diet rule like Jews and pork - not always a rationale, not always a lesson to be learned, more of a custom than anything. A healthy custom, sure, but not necessarily a prerequisite for salvation (just my opinion).

what do you mean don't you remember the woman who was going to heaven but couldn't let go of the coffee pot? btw the woman in that story is probably my mom...

[YOhio]

Word of Wizzum by Everclean
http://www.sonsofprovo.com/
Don’t, don’t drink. No, don’t even think about it Drinkin’ stinks Stinky drink no doubt about it O-val-tine Better for you don’t you doubt it Keep yo body clean Let’s shout it!

Go! Go! Go! Go! Stop!

Meats O.K. Yeah, but only twice a day Coffee? No way! Pero, Postum, yes you may Moun-tain Dew Tasty but no good for you Too too true At least I’m not sniffin’ glue

Chorus

Go! Go! Go! Go! Stop!

To-bac-co Stupid way to spend your dough You’ll end up bein’ po End up smellin like a ho (ho ho) But if you’d care To have white teeth and silky hair Keep it if you dare: Word a wizzum.. it’s rare!

Word a Wizzum Is the shizzum Keeps me clear of Plop, Plop Fizzum Keep yo toxins far from me I’m only drinkin’ herbal tea. Drugs I know won’t Help me grow so I’m prepared to just say No! Keep my vessel Spic and Span So I get to the Promised Land.

Chorus

You gonna chug a whole bottle of Robitussin? No, don’t even think about it. How about a mochaccino latte? No, don’t even think about it. Maybe a nice casserole? Better for you don’t you doubt it. Keep your body clean, let’s shout it!

[All-American]

I believe the answer Seattle's looking for is this: who cares, Joseph Smith was a fraud and it's all a bunch of crock anyway.

The CORRECT answer is two fold: the Word of Wisdom is not just a list of "thou shalt not drink, nor shalt thou smoke all the days of thy life" commandments. Latter-Day Saints have a tendency to pay less attention to the things the word of wisdom tells us to do-- for which the blame is not to fall upon the revelation, but those who fail to keep it.

Secondly, there's a specific reason the word of wisdom is given:

"In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation."

It's not to say that the substances themselves are inherently evil, though I think you've got a tough case to make for the virtues of smoking. I would say that it is much easier these days, and the consequences much greater, to become addicted to the substances prohibited by the word of wisdom.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by All-American

I believe the answer Seattle's looking for is this: who cares, Joseph Smith was a fraud and it's all a bunch of crock anyway.

The CORRECT answer is two fold: the Word of Wisdom is not just a list of "thou shalt not drink, nor shalt thou smoke all the days of thy life" commandments. Latter-Day Saints have a tendency to pay less attention to the things the word of wisdom tells us to do-- for which the blame is not to fall upon the revelation, but those who fail to keep it.

Secondly, there's a specific reason the word of wisdom is given:

"In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation."

It's not to say that the substances themselves are inherently evil, though I think you've got a tough case to make for the virtues of smoking. I would say that it is much easier these days, and the consequences much greater, to become addicted to the substances prohibited by the word of wisdom.

First, Seattle is just baiting us for fun. Okay let's play.

The WoW is folk wisdom that was adopted as a signature to identify the fold of God. It is generally a good health plan. Whether absolute abstinence is necessary for a healthy life, it is not true your health will be compromised by abstaining from alcohol. The red wine studies are questionable. More importantly, I'll issue this challenge: I abstain from substances traditionally identified in the WoW. I will take a health test against all the advocates of of drinking alcohol, and I wager that I'll come in the top ten or top five percent in my age bracket under any and all measures of health.

Second, if one desires to participate in a group, one either agrees to abide by certain rules or one doesn't. The examination requested by Seattle is a ruse. The principle of obedience is not one of blindness but introspection. If I wish to train to be an athlete, a good formula is to find somebody familiar with the event and to follow the advice. I will through examination and application discover the truthfulness of the wisdome of successful trainers. The same of it is true of the WoW. Try it out and obedience to it will show its wisdom. That is all. Obedience for obedience sake without learning is not valuable for very long, unless one is an enlisted man in the military.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Archaea

It is generally a good health plan. Whether absolute abstinence is necessary for a healthy life, it is not true your health will be compromised by abstaining from alcohol. The red wine studies are questionable. More importantly, I'll issue this challenge: I abstain from substances traditionally identified in the WoW. I will take a health test against all the advocates of of drinking alcohol, and I wager that I'll come in the top ten or top five percent in my age bracket under any and all measures of health.

No one has gone so far as to claim your health will be compromised by abstaining from alcohol. What I highlighted was the arbitrary nature of proscribing alcohol in moderation and issuing no comment about a host of other activities more damaging to one's health.

As for your challenge, everyone knows you are a super jock and one in a million. As a moderate consumer of alcohol, I would be happy to compare my blood pressure, cholesterol, blood sugar, and weight numbers with your average au gratin potato/jellow salad/root beer/diet pop consuming Utah Valley couch potato.

[MikeWaters]

SU, I'd be willing to compare my vertical and 3 point percentage to yours.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

No one has gone so far as to claim your health will be compromised by abstaining from Alcohol. What I highlighted was the arbitrary nature of proscribing alcohol in moderation and issuing no comment about a host of other activities more damaging to one's health.

As for your challenge, everyone knows you are a super jock and one in a million. As a moderate consumer of alcohol, I would be happy to compare my blood pressure, cholesterol, blood sugar, and weight numbers with your average au gratin potato/jellow salad/root beer/diet pop consuming Utah Valley couch potato.

Well, in advance, you can find descriptions in discussions about other aspects, so your observation is not completely true. And, having people follow the existing health code is difficult enough. If it were more like the Hebraic law, just imagine the screaming, complaining and yelling. It reminds me of a Muslim who told me Mohammed complained to God when God told him his people had to pray to him twelve times a day. And Mohammed told God, "What are you crazy, the people will never do that!" So he was allowed to mandate the three or five times that Muslims pray.

I am not a superjock, meaning I have no talent, but am an average Joe, who likes to stay fit. Every human being could enjoy my fitness level by observing a fitness protocol and by eating a modestly healthy diet.

I would make this challenge. Compare the average educated, professional, who has the means and time to exercise, of one doesn't drink with one who does. My guess is that the drinkers will have more health problems than the none drinkers.

I do wish the health code told the fat asses to stop being fat and to get off your duff, stop eating green jello and fats. If we ate lean and clean, our lives would be fuller and healthier. No culture is perfect in its diet though. None.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

SU, I'd be willing to compare my vertical and 3 point percentage to yours.

The comparison between my mental acuity and lucidity and yours is ongoing and you are not faring well.

As for your challenge, everyone knows from that self-illustration on your post that you are in Archea's class physcially so the comparison is not a fair or apt one.

[il Padrino Ute]

Blind obedience to any Code of Ethics for Lawyers is irrational as well, isn't it? A thinking lawyer would do what is beneficial for him/her and the client.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

The comparison between my mental acuity and lucidity and yours is ongoing and you are not faring well.

But my band of guerrilla forces is bigger than yours. After all I am a cult leader.