For those opposed to Bishops asking about masturbation

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Tex

Link?

I can't believe I'm bothering to post in yet another obsessive CG thread on this inane topic.

I'm not making this argument. I'm throwing out the assumptions I've heard in this argument. I don't have any sources.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I've never heard an overt message that it is ok from an ecclesiastical authority.

However, given that I have heard, I think, zero about it in YM's lessons, that could be in a sense, a tacit "don't ask don't tell". However I suspect the bishop is tackling the subject in interviews (just a guess).

Tex, do you think the topic should be ignored both in public and in private?

We should teach the law of chastity as we practice it.

If somebody asks, we should present our opinion and let that person deal with it as he or she sees fit.

It should not be an open discussion, as we have much more serious chastity issues than that one. I do not believe it should be asked in a worthiness interview, but if somebody brings it to the bishop an opinion may be expressed then.

Otherwise, it should be a disinterested topic.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Talking about this subject is amazingly banal.

Whether the Church should discuss the problems with porn abuse is an entirely different issue.

I have not heard the subject mentioned within the confines of the Church in more than twenty, if not thirty years. That is sufficient infrequency to tell me that bishops and stake presidents do not discuss it regularly. So I'm calling Mormon Urban Legend on this one.

I doubt it is as frequent as people claim, but what do I know. My only poiint is, let's not blow something entirely out of proportion. Mormon bishops are NOT running amuck on this issue, even if a few have mentioned it.

How could you not hear the subject mentioned in 30 years? That's bizarre.

It's in every chastitiy talk or lesson ever aimed at the youth. It was in the deacons quorum teaching manual. I taught the lesson last week.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

So it's not ok at less than 18 years old. Is it ok 18 or over? Or never ok?

You guys crack me up, seriously. So many guys here in a tizzy over the law of chastity actually including masturbation.

I'd say it's OK to ask after age 16 or 17--in preparation for the mission. I was getting this question when I was 12 years old--3-4 years before I even hit puberty.

I'd prefer if the Church recommended that bishops not ask about it, but instead allow people to volunteer specifics about their law of chastity misconduct.

Not OK to ask girls about it--especially 12 year olds. Yes, some bishops do ask 12 year old girls this question.

Why not simply limit the question to: "Do you obey the law of chastity?" Why does the bishop need gory details?

Here is the way questioning normally went for me as a teenager:

Bishop: Do you obey the law of chastity?

Me: Yes.

Bishop: Do you dry hump?

Me: No.

Bishop: Do you know what dry humping is?

Me: Yes, but I've never even kissed a girl.

Bishop: So you're sure you've never dry humped?

Me: I'm quite certain about it.

Bishop: So do you masturbate then?

Me: No. Never.

Bishop: Are you sure?

Me: I'm positive.

Bishop: I have the power of discernment and I think you masturbate.

Me: I don't. Really I don't.

Bishop: OK then. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this time.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

I'd say it's OK to ask after age 16 or 17--in preparation for the mission. I was getting this question when I was 12 years old--3-4 years before I even hit puberty.

I'd prefer if the Church recommended that bishops not ask about it, but instead allow people to volunteer specifics about their law of chastity misconduct.

Not OK to ask girls about it--especially 12 year olds. Yes, some bishops do ask 12 year old girls this question.

Why not simply limit the question to: "Do you obey the law of chastity?" Why does the bishop need gory details?

Here is the way questioning normally went for me as a teenager:

Bishop: Do you obey the law of chastity?

Me: Yes.

Bishop: Do you dry hump?

Me: No.

Bishop: Do you know what dry humping is?

Me: Yes, but I've never even kissed a girl.

Bishop: So you're sure you've never dry humped?

Me: I'm quite certain about it.

Bishop: So do you masturbate then?

Me: No. Never.

Bishop: Are you sure?

Me: I'm positive.

Bishop: I have the power of discernment and I think you masturbate.

Me: I don't. Really I don't.

Bishop: OK then. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this time.

With all due respect, I'm calling bunk on this one. You have embellished to make a good story. No well-trained bishop would ever interview in this manner.

In fact, that is exactly how they are instructed NOT to interview. This is NOT a true representaiton of bishops interviewing for worthiness. It would directly conflict with bishops' training.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by jay santos

How could you not hear the subject mentioned in 30 years? That's bizarre.

It's in every chastitiy talk or lesson ever aimed at the youth. It was in the deacons quorum teaching manual. I taught the lesson last week.

I've never heard it, and I'm not in Deacons' Quorum.

The only thing I ever heard was that silly factory speech by Elder Packer, from ten decades ago.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Archaea

With all due respect, I'm calling bunk on this one. You have embellished to make a good story. No well-trained bishop would ever interview in this manner.

In fact, that is exactly how they are instructed NOT to interview. This is NOT a true representaiton of bishops interviewing for worthiness. It would directly conflict with bishops' training.

I really think we need a SoonerCoug Snopes.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

With all due respect, I'm calling bunk on this one. You have embellished to make a good story. No well-trained bishop would ever interview in this manner.

In fact, that is exactly how they are instructed NOT to interview. This is NOT a true representaiton of bishops interviewing for worthiness. It would directly conflict with bishops' training.

OK, this is a combination of two separate interviews. I swear on my life this actually happened as I described it.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

I'd say it's OK to ask after age 16 or 17--in preparation for the mission. I was getting this question when I was 12 years old--3-4 years before I even hit puberty.

I'd prefer if the Church recommended that bishops not ask about it, but instead allow people to volunteer specifics about their law of chastity misconduct.

Not OK to ask girls about it--especially 12 year olds. Yes, some bishops do ask 12 year old girls this question.

Why not simply limit the question to: "Do you obey the law of chastity?" Why does the bishop need gory details?

Here is the way questioning normally went for me as a teenager:

Bishop: Do you obey the law of chastity?

Me: Yes.

Bishop: Do you dry hump?

Me: No.

Bishop: Do you know what dry humping is?

Me: Yes, but I've never even kissed a girl.

Bishop: So you're sure you've never dry humped?

Me: I'm quite certain about it.

Bishop: So do you masturbate then?

Me: No. Never.

Bishop: Are you sure?

Me: I'm positive.

Bishop: I have the power of discernment and I think you masturbate.

Me: I don't. Really I don't.

Bishop: OK then. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this time.

You're talking about suspecting a bishop of being a voyeuristic pervert. I've heard the argument about a bishop contributing to unnecessary guilt/shame for a teenager that actually could end up fueling an addiction. I haven't heard the pervert aspect. As a parent, I don't perceive that as much of a risk.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

With all due respect, I'm calling bunk on this one. You have embellished to make a good story. No well-trained bishop would ever interview in this manner.

In fact, that is exactly how they are instructed NOT to interview. This is NOT a true representaiton of bishops interviewing for worthiness. It would directly conflict with bishops' training.

Maybe my Bishop was the reason they instructed everyone else NOT to interview this way.

But the Bishop who preceded this one always asked my prepubescent 12 year old sister if she masturbated. Not cool.