would you support your child's desire to be inactive?

[marsupial]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

but it wouldn't have crossed my mind at age 11 to refuse to go to church. That's the way it should be. Yes, shocker I know, but there are stake presidents out there who are lousy parents.

Yes, but not all children are the same. We are all born with a unique temperment. A parent can't gag and hog-tie a kid to go to church. A parent can take away every privilege possible if the kid refuses to cooperate, but even with every privilege stripped away some kids will still choose to rebel.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

This is always a difficult issue, but esp. when a child is young. My priest quorum's advisor had an oldest son who was about 11, and was inactive. He refused to come to church and threw tantrums, etc. He was a real hellion.

This brother, from what I could tell, was deeply pained. It seeemed like he had already fought his son, and then was trying not to fight. This man was incredibly patient and good-natured with the priests, all of whom went on missions, and as far as I know, are all still active in the church.

This man is now a stake president (Idaho?). And his oldest son is in prison.

I guess it would depend on what the word support meant. I am talking in context of a child into their late teens and early adulthood here. At 11 I wouldn't support in any way a child making a major decision contrary to the parents advice.

To me there is a huge difference between the words "encourage" or "support". If a child of mine in early adulthood, say 18 decided to be inactive, I would support the decision. I wouldn't make any idle threats. I would encourage them to return to activity only vocally and only when the child opened up the opportunity to do so. I believe the more you press the issue the more the child will harden their position and perhaps lock the door to future activity.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

The problem was not that his oldest son didn't go to church, but that he had the kind of relationship with his parents that, at 11, he felt he could make decisions like this for himself. I blame the parents 100% unless there's some psycholgical problem on the kid's part. This problem is not all that unusual for this generation of kids, and it represents a kind of neglect, and even abuse (to the extent neglect is abuse) by parents, to raise kids to think they have that much autonomy at such a young age. My parents weren't all that tough on discipline, but it wouldn't have crossed my mind at age 11 to refuse to go to church. That's the way it should be. Yes, shocker I know, but there are stake presidents out there who are lousy parents.

A-freakin'-men.

Makes me wonder what other types of decisions some parents leave to their kids. School attendance? Homework? Health care? Hygeine? Step up and be the parent for crying out loud.

We tell our kids that they have their free agency about church. They can attend happily or unhappily.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

A-freakin'-men.

Makes me wonder what other types of decisions some parents leave to their kids. School attendance? Homework? Health care? Hygeine? Step up and be the parent for crying out loud.

We tell our kids that they have their free agency about church. They can attend happily or unhappily.

Agreed. At 17 or 18, it may be a bit harder, but if at 11 your child can get away with it, then you're doing something wrong.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

A-freakin'-men.

Makes me wonder what other types of decisions some parents leave to their kids. School attendance? Homework? Health care? Hygeine? Step up and be the parent for crying out loud.

We tell our kids that they have their free agency about church. They can attend happily or unhappily.

You speak as one who has not encountered the problem that this family encountered.

You judge these parents harshly, but is it really fair? I bet you probably wouldn't harshly judge the family in my home ward whose daughter committed suicide, who was disturbed, angry, and unhappy.

The better question for the title of this thread, is how do you deal with a child who is bent on destroying a family, for reasons that are unfathomable.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

You speak as one who has not encountered the problem that this family encountered.

You judge these parents harshly, but is it really fair? I bet you probably wouldn't harshly judge the family in my home ward whose daughter committed suicide, who was disturbed, angry, and unhappy.

The better question for the title of this thread, is how do you deal with a child who is bent on destroying a family, for reasons that are unfathomable.

How can an 11 be able to do that?

Now there may be extreme examples, as I've read a few of the foster children horror stories, but it is extremely anomalous for an 11 year old to be able to be that disruptive.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

You speak as one who has not encountered the problem that this family encountered.

You judge these parents harshly, but is it really fair? I bet you probably wouldn't harshly judge the family in my home ward whose daughter committed suicide, who was disturbed, angry, and unhappy.

The better question for the title of this thread, is how do you deal with a child who is bent on destroying a family, for reasons that are unfathomable.

I am curious Mike, was this their youngest child?

I do agree with you it is all to easy to look at a situation and say where the parents screwed up.

It is like calling a play on the football field, choosing to fight in Iraq, etc. When the results of a decision become apparent, it is all too easy to sit back and tell the decision maker what the decision should have been. Especially when we don't know what the alternative decision would have brought.

[MikeWaters]

71, it was their oldest child.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I am curious Mike, was this their youngest child?

I do agree with you it is all to easy to look at a situation and say where the parents screwed up.

It is like calling a play on the football field, choosing to fight in Iraq, etc. When the results of a decision become apparent, it is all too easy to sit back and tell the decision maker what the decision should have been. Especially when we don't know what the alternative decision would have brought.

In the journals of pedagogy, you will read about some children, who just happen to be atrocious people, and which no sane person without drugs and medical degrees can confront. But these persons are statistical anomalies. Yet they do exist.

Those who even at young age, torture animals, siblings and themselves. Who threaten and nearly kill neighbor children. Like it or not, there are a few people who are just bad from the start.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

71, it was their oldest child.

Shows how much I know. I would have bet money it was their youngest child.