Obama team announces gun control measures

[Levin]

Originally Posted by Archaea

American traditions are dying, and the respect of our forefathers is changing. Current urbanites don't respect the frontier, don't understand it.

And how necessary assault weapons were to our forefathers as they made the arid West bloom like the rose. The AK-47 was essential to the frontiersman as he hunted the mule deer and the trapped the beaver.

Stating this here will likely get me shot by one, but the Assualt Weapons Ban was a reasonable (and wise) restriction on the 2nd Amendment right of gun ownership. And I predict when the Ban is once again enacted, it will survive scrutiny under Heller.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Levin

And how necessary assault weapons were to our forefathers as they made the arid West bloom like the rose. The AK-47 was essential to the frontiersman as he hunted the mule deer and the trapped the beaver.

Stating this here will likely get me shot by one, but the Assualt Weapons Ban was a reasonable (and wise) restriction on the 2nd Amendment right of gun ownership. And I predict when the Ban is once again enacted, it will survive scrutiny under Heller.

You won't get shot, but you won't convince anyone that your opinion is correct.

The problem isn't the restriction of assault rifles. The problem is the federal government limiting freedom.

[Levin]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

The problem isn't the restriction of assault rifles. The problem is the federal government limiting freedom.

Like limiting the use of drugs? Like limiting the practice of polygamy? Like imposing fuel emission standards? Like protecting endangered species? Like every OSHA regulation? . . .

If the problem is the federal government limiting freedom, you have to come up with an argument that doesn't apply to nearly every government action. Make it specific to assault weapons.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Levin

And how necessary assault weapons were to our forefathers as they made the arid West bloom like the rose. The AK-47 was essential to the frontiersman as he hunted the mule deer and the trapped the beaver.

Stating this here will likely get me shot by one, but the Assualt Weapons Ban was a reasonable (and wise) restriction on the 2nd Amendment right of gun ownership. And I predict when the Ban is once again enacted, it will survive scrutiny under Heller.

Slippery slope. It's not reasonable to register all gun owners, but Obama envisages a world where we're all registered as human cogs in a great socialist machine. We're not people any more.

In Germany, one must register at a Standesamt, whenever one moves from town to town. Foreigners, including missionaries, had to register, as sex offenders must do so here. But normal German citizens had to also register. It offends my sensibilities. I am an individual first, and society is not my master or owner. Under your view, I am not free. This is the underlying distinction, between Obama's philosophy an me, I envisage a free man, who devotes some part to society, while providing for his own, while Obama believes we are all cogs of the state, which sometimes allows the cogs a free moment or two.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Levin

Like limiting the use of drugs? Like limiting the practice of polygamy? Like imposing fuel emission standards? Like protecting endangered species? Like every OSHA regulation? . . .

If the problem is the federal government limiting freedom, you have to come up with an argument that doesn't apply to nearly every government action. Make it specific to assault weapons.

It's a nice rubric, but the concept of "enabling constraints" ignores historical developments which provide some of us comfort apart from the appearance of safety through government intervention and elimination of liberties.

Historically we have lived free of restrictions on our weapons for militia reasons and the like. For the most part, gun owners have acted responsibly, even "assault" rifle owners. The complex spiderweb of liberties which the omniscient "state", a nameless, faceless mass of humanity and inefficiencies, wishes to exercise ownership and control is fundamentally different than reserving liberties within the public, allowing limited interference by the power of the governors.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Levin

Like limiting the use of drugs? Like limiting the practice of polygamy? Like imposing fuel emission standards? Like protecting endangered species? Like every OSHA regulation? . . .

If the problem is the federal government limiting freedom, you have to come up with an argument that doesn't apply to nearly every government action. Make it specific to assault weapons.

None of those you listed are guaranteed freedoms in the Constitution, so your argument about me needing to be specific doesn't work.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

None of those you listed are guaranteed freedoms in the Constitution, so your argument about me needing to be specific doesn't work.

Social engineers are an anathema to liberty.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Social engineers are an anathema to liberty.

Agreed.

[BarbaraGordon]

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

It's really not that hard to understand, Barbara. One only sees it as a Chicken Little issue if one doesn't care about the 2nd Amendment.