K-Dog's suffering

[creekster]

This is an example, if you will excuse the Brodie-esque speculation on my part, of SU's repeated efforts to comfort himself over the loss inherent in his apostasy. He was and remains deeply associated with Mormonism. He, and most others similarly inculcated, cannot simply leave. Hence, he hangs around here and tries to convince others that what he did is OK, thereby hoping to convince himself. Perhaps feeling the loss of community as much as the loss of spiritual companionship, he attempts to construct categories of persons that are like him even if they deny it. Indeed, if you are part of group 2, he reasons to himself, your very denial practically proves his point!

I don't think it is pure trolling. I think he has a need that he seeks to fill or justify or explain by these efforts.

I would typically avoid such personal speculations but given that SU started it rolling, there you have it.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by creekster

This is an example, if you will excuse the Brodie-esque speculation on my part, of SU's repeated efforts to comfort himself over the loss inherent in his apostasy. He was and remains deeply associated with Mormonism. He, and most others similarly inculcated, cannot simply leave. Hence, he hangs around here and tries to convince others that what he did is OK, thereby hoping to convince himself. Perhaps feeling the loss of community as much as the loss of spiritual companionship, he attempts to construct categories of persons that are like him even if they deny it. Indeed, if you are part of group 2, he reasons to himself, your very denial practically proves his point!

I don't think it is pure trolling. I think he has a need that he seeks to fill or justify or explain by these efforts.

I would typically avoid such personal speculations but given that SU started it rolling, there you have it.

You're selling yourself short. Yes, as I have stated, apostasy is not cost free. It is costly, primarily in a societal sense. Any thoughtful apostate will conduct a similar cost-benefit analysis as the 2) group. This is a value judgment, and you will never see me disparage group 1) or 2). In fact, the 2) group may be most interesting in the sense that it exhibits a high degree of psychic and emotional discipline, and an impressive capacity to think rationally in a holistic way.

But the reason I hang out here is not that I am a closet believer, or wish to rationalize my past, or regret my decisions, or desire to convince anyone that I made a correct decision. Rather, our common heritage is the factor that made us cross paths in the first instance. That heritage as well as the BYU-Utah Rivalry gives us something meaningful in common. I think I've demonstrated that the history of religion far surpassing Mormonism interests me greatly, and this is a place where others share a similar interest. I think there are some interesting and even at times funny cats here. Thus, this is a good place to go blow off a little steam, taking a break from the salt mines.

Finally, if my objective were to "convince others that what I did is OK" I have been singularly ineffective and keep at what I've been doing despite receiving no positive reinforcement. I have, to my knowledge, never convinced anyone from category 3) or 2), nor certiainly any person outside the subgroup I've identified (i.e., intelligent and educated people inculcated with Mormonism at some time), to apostatize. I am not even sure I've given anyone from category 1) comfort that they did make the right decision. One interesting thing is that there does indeed seem to be something going on that defies reason since reason has so completely fallen on deaf ears.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

...One interesting thing is that there does indeed seem to be something going on that defies reason since reason has so completely fallen on deaf ears.

One man's reason is another man's misguided ramblings.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

You're selling yourself short. Yes, as I have stated, apostasy is not cost free. It is costly, primarily in a societal sense. Any thoughtful apostate will conduct a similar cost-benefit analysis as the 2) group. This is a value judgment, and you will never see me disparage group 1) or 2). In fact, the 2) group may be most interesting in the sense that it exhibits a high degree of psychic and emotional discipline, and an impressive capacity to think rationally in a holistic way.

But the reason I hang out here is not that I am a closet believer, or wish to rationalize my past, or regret my decisions, or desire to convince anyone that I made a correct decision. Rather, our common heritage is the factor that made us cross paths in the first instance. That heritage as well as the BYU-Utah Rivalry gives us something meaningful in common. I think I've demonstrated that the history of religion far surpassing Mormonism interests me greatly, and this is a place where others share a similar interest. I think there are some interesting and even at times funny cats here. Thus, this is a good place to go blow off a little steam, taking a break from the salt mines.

Finally, if my objective were to "convince others that what I did is OK" I have been singularly ineffective and keep at what I've been doing despite receiving no positive reinforcement. I have, to my knowledge, never convinced anyone from category 3) or 2), nor certiainly any person outside the subgroup I've identified (i.e., intelligent and educated people inculcated with Mormonism at some time), to apostatize. I am not even sure I've given anyone from category 1) comfort that they did make the right decision. One interesting thing is that there does indeed seem to be something going on that defies reason since reason has so completely fallen on deaf ears.

SU, I almost had some empathy towards you as a human being for the first time ever showing all that humility and sincerity. Then you brought it back to reality with your last sentence there. Thanks because I didn't know what to do until you threw that in.