I am evil

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Please.

I attended public school because my parents were public school teachers (until dad quit teaching and became a general contractor.) My kids are in private school.

I am self employed.

I buy bottled water because I don't want to drink the fluoridated water here in Utah.

You make some good points. I already pointed out that I'm willing to pay for the thing that I use, so save your condescension for someone who will take it.

You start to itemize the things you don't use, just to conclude that you actually do benefit substantially from the government's collection of taxes at which point you say you could pay for all of the services you get anyways, so it is a wash. Not sure I follow that logic.

Even assuming you could pay for it all, what if your neighbor couldn't? What if, instead of having a nice waste repository, your neighbor just crapped right on the border of your property every day, leaving a gigantic steaming heap of crap next to your house that just got bigger as each day passed? Would you just shoot him to resolve the issue? Or would you wish there could only be someone who could require them to move the crap without you having to shoot your neighbor?

What if you got your water from a lovely stream, but the guy who owned the property upstream dumped chemicals in the water from a business he started. Would you wish there was something that could regulate dumping of waste in streams or someone who could make him stop? Or, just shoot him too?

What if you wanted to drive on a road (and we are assuming it is a private road you have to pay for), but you forgot your money (assuming there was money, which is really just a government convenience). Would you wish there was some way you could just pay on credit? Well, if you still could have banks, what would you do if the bank owner just walked away with all your money? Or if it had a habit of giving dangerous (or insider) loans to people, so it went under and you lost everything? Would you wish there was some government agency that would guarantee the insurance of your funds?

Asking for the government to get out of everything is just naive, regardless of what you think you can or want to pay for on your own.

[woot]

Having worked in the dental industry quite a bit, I can testify that Utah has more dentists per capita than any state in the union. Part of that is that Mormons just really love to be dentists because it's a good living with flexible hours, but part of that is because Utah has a much higher rate of rotting teeth. Despite the scarily saturated pop:GP rate, Utah dentists still do pretty well for themselves.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I have never understood bottled water or the fluoridation fears. Do Utahns know they are the only state without fluoridated water? Are they of the opinion that the rest of the nation is suffering from some horrible disease? Maybe fluoride leads to happiness, and that explains why Utah is the most depressed state.

And why buy bottled water, other than for storage? It strikes me as being about as wise as buying bottles filled with air that I can breathe.

Utah has fluoridated water.

I'm not afraid of it. I just don't want that particular choice made for me. It's something that I can control.

And before anyone makes assumptions, I don't force my wife and kids to drink only bottled water. It's just something that I do. That's why I decided not to by a filtration system to take it out.

[Indy Coug]

So I finally figured out what the problem is with Cali: fluoridation.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

You start to itemize the things you don't use, just to conclude that you actually do benefit substantially from the government's collection of taxes at which point you say you could pay for all of the services you get anyways, so it is a wash. Not sure I follow that logic.

Even assuming you could pay for it all, what if your neighbor couldn't? What if, instead of having a nice waste repository, your neighbor just crapped right on the border of your property every day, leaving a gigantic steaming heap of crap next to your house that just got bigger as each day passed? Would you just shoot him to resolve the issue? Or would you wish there could only be someone who could require them to move the crap without you having to shoot your neighbor?

What if you got your water from a lovely stream, but the guy who owned the property upstream dumped chemicals in the water from a business he started. Would you wish there was something that could regulate dumping of waste in streams or someone who could make him stop? Or, just shoot him too?

What if you wanted to drive on a road (and we are assuming it is a private road you have to pay for), but you forgot your money (assuming there was money, which is really just a government convenience). Would you wish there was some way you could just pay on credit? Well, if you still could have banks, what would you do if the bank owner just walked away with all your money? Or if it had a habit of giving dangerous (or insider) loans to people, so it went under and you lost everything? Would you wish there was some government agency that would guarantee the insurance of your funds?

Asking for the government to get out of everything is just naive, regardless of what you think you can or want to pay for on your own.

What if the world blew up? Nothing would matter then, right?

If my neighbor wants to take a dump on his lawn, fine. I'd put up a fence so I wouldn't have to look at it.

What I find amusing is your attempt to convince me that I need to feel like I need the government as much as you feel you need it. Why can't you just accept the fact that I don't want to pay for someone else's health care? That's what this all started about, right?

Like I said in my first post - if you want it, you pay for it.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

What if the world blew up? Nothing would matter then, right?

If my neighbor wants to take a dump on his lawn, fine. I'd put up a fence so I wouldn't have to look at it.

What I find amusing is your attempt to convince me that I need to feel like I need the government as much as you feel you need it. Why can't you just accept the fact that I don't want to pay for someone else's health care? That's what this all started about, right?

Like I said in my first post - if you want it, you pay for it.

You don't pay for someone else's heath care? Do you self-insure 100%?

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

What if the world blew up? Nothing would matter then, right?

If my neighbor wants to take a dump on his lawn, fine. I'd put up a fence so I wouldn't have to look at it.

What I find amusing is your attempt to convince me that I need to feel like I need the government as much as you feel you need it. Why can't you just accept the fact that I don't want to pay for someone else's health care? That's what this all started about, right?

Like I said in my first post - if you want it, you pay for it.

What is so ironic about all of this is that you pay for other people's health costs regardless. People use free medical services all the time because they are incapable of paying for the services. Those costs get passed onto you in the form of higher premiums. Isn't it more honest to just insure them up front?

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

You don't pay for someone else's heath care? Do you self-insure 100%?

I buy private health insurance for me and my family because I'm self employed. It is an expense that I'm willing to pay.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

I buy private health insurance for me and my family because I'm self employed.

I've got news for you: you're paying for other people's healthcare. Either that, or you've got other people paying for yours.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

What is so ironic about all of this is that you pay for other people's health costs regardless. People use free medical services all the time because they are incapable of paying for the services. Those costs get passed onto you in the form of higher premiums. Isn't it more honest to just insure them up front?

Nothing you say will convince me that socialized medicine is a good thing.

That people get medical care in this country despite the ability to pay kind of negates the need for national health care, does it not?