This is just sad

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by FarrahWaters

What are the chances that a Renaissance of Islam could happen here in the US? I know of a convert to Islam (woman living here in Dallas) who says that the true and peaceful spirit of the religion can only be lived out here in America. She says it is the culture of the Middle East that warps Islam.

Sort of what Utah does to Mormonism.

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

Sort of what Utah does to Mormonism.

LOL! Now that's funny.

[BigFatMeanie]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

So, Mindful, to what do you attribute the growth of the violent factions of Islam?

Is it inherent in the religion itself? The product of its socio-political environment? Just the result of a few really bad guys?

If I saw this question on a quiz I would complain about there not being a "D) all of the above" answer. Of course, trying to identify where the percentages break down (i.e. 30% bad guys, 50% religion, 20% socio-political) would be an exceeding difficult task.

Cause and effect is such a difficult thing to determine on a global/macro/society-wide level. I just finished reading War and Peace where Tolstoy discusses why he thinks historians use an incorrect methodology when determining/discussing the cause of the Napoleonic wars. Trying to determine the cause of violent factions in Islam seems similar to trying to determine the cause of the Napoleonic wars. Tolstoy had very interesting theories about why stuff happened - the collective sum of millions of peoples actions that became so great that notable individuals (i.e. leaders of countries, specific bad guys, etc.) really had no choice but to act how they did - that notable individuals were pushed along by the momentum of a million different circumstances. Anyway, just a thought I had...

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie

If I saw this question on a quiz I would complain about there not being a "D) all of the above" answer. Of course, trying to identify where the percentages break down (i.e. 30% bad guys, 50% religion, 20% socio-political) would be an exceeding difficult task.

Cause and effect is such a difficult thing to determine on a global/macro/society-wide level. I just finished reading War and Peace where Tolstoy discusses why he thinks historians use an incorrect methodology when determining/discussing the cause of the Napoleonic wars. Trying to determine the cause of violent factions in Islam seems similar to trying to determine the cause of the Napoleonic wars. Tolstoy had very interesting theories about why stuff happened - the collective sum of millions of peoples actions that became so great that notable individuals (i.e. leaders of countries, specific bad guys, etc.) really had no choice but to act how they did - that notable individuals were pushed along by the momentum of a million different circumstances. Anyway, just a thought I had...

Once historians get into the business of identifying cause and effect, it seems they are on thin ice.

[Mindfulcoug]

As far as i know the vast majority of muslim people and the most prominent of muslim leaders have no conflict of living with eachother in peace..so now it wouldnot be very difficult to realise who are really the "BAD GUYS" and how they get support ,gun and money and why.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by mindfulcoug

As far as i know the vast majority of muslim people and the most prominent of muslim leaders have no conflict of living with eachother in peace..so now it wouldnot be very difficult to realise who are really the "BAD GUYS" and how they get support ,gun and money and why.

Interestingly, the most peaceful Muslim nations are NOT in the Middle East, you guessed it, Indonesia and Malaysia.

[Detroitdad]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Interestingly, the most peaceful Muslim nations are NOT in the Middle East, you guessed it, Indonesia and Malaysia.

Indonesia is peaceful? I know of a few East Timoreans who might argue with that.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Detroitdad

Indonesia is peaceful? I know of a few East Timoreans who might argue with that.

Compare it to Lebanon, Jordan, or Iraq.

[Mindfulcoug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Interestingly, the most peaceful Muslim nations are NOT in the Middle East, you guessed it, Indonesia and Malaysia.

thats becuase no western country has invaded them?? or ..

[Mindfulcoug]

Originally Posted by mindfulcoug

thats becuase no western country has invaded them?? or ..

or no occupation plan has been plotted??