Uninsured, a question...

[K-dog]

Originally Posted by Frank Ryan

You must not like to mingle with poor people much.

I'm just trying to figure out what is different about your situation from those I know. BTW, I've mingled with and continue to mingle with many poor people especially self employed types. I know a surprising amount from my childhood about government programs for the poor. I have money now but never had it until my wife graduated from law school.

[Clark Addison]

Originally Posted by Tex

A more pertient question may be: to what extent should society (read: the gov't) be responsible for providing insurance for "down on their luck" families? And how does one distinguish between legitimate "down on their luck" and freeloaders?

I agree. It is the same question (the first one), with the focus on the payers, rather than the beneficiaries, which is fine. We should look at it from all directions.

As I said before, I find this a very difficult question. I don't know what the right answer is, and I certainly have my share of fiscally conservative tendencies, that seem to grow as I pay more taxes. However, I am very uncomfortable with the idea that someone who is poor, as I once was, should not have access to health care.

[Clark Addison]

Originally Posted by K-dog

I picked up a high deductible policy in lawschool for slightly more than $80 a month. that's pretty cheap.

Yes, for a single, young, student. If you were 43 years old and married, with 4 kids, I think that you would find the rates to be very, very different.

[Frank Ryan]

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695268709,00.html

looks like there a few less bad-choice makers and would-be free loaders to be concerned about

[BigFatMeanie]

Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie

1) No. There may have been a time from January to April after I got off my mission and before I enrolled in Spring Semester at BYU when I didn't have health insurance but I think I was probably still covered under my parents policy. BYU requires all students to have health insurance and provides student insurance through DMBA. Mrs. Meanie and I had DMBA student insurance up until I got my first full-time job. Since then, I've always participated in my employers group insurance plan. The plans have had varying degrees of suckiness/goodness but we've always been insured.

2) N/A

3) N/A

Some additional details,

I've never lost a job or been "in-between" jobs. Occasionally, I've had to wait for 30 days at my new job before my health insurance kicks in. In this case, I've paid for the COBRA coverage (expensive as heck) out of my own pocket.

I've had life insurance from the day I got married. I've always made sure I had appropriate coverage on my home and autos. I've maintained an umbrella policy in the past which come in very handy when I got sued for posting on the internet (a long story). I've considered supplemental insurance such as Short Term Disability/Long Term Disability, etc. but I don't currently carry any policy of that type.

Insurance is important. Insurance is especially important when you can't afford to swallow $20K in medical bills or $10K of car repairs. My hierarchy of expenses listed in order of importance:

1a. Tithing
1b. Insurance
1c. Gas/Electric/Water/Sewer
1d. Mortgage
2. Auto
3. Food
4. Kids braces
5. Phone
6. Kids piano lessons
7. Clothing

In other words, I would drop the kids piano lessons before I stopped paying my gas bill. Basically items 1a-1d are considered critical. Everything after that could theoretically be sacrificed but the items 1 define our bare minimum cash burn rate.

[K-dog]

Originally Posted by Clark Addison

Yes, for a single, young, student. If you were 43 years old and married, with 4 kids, I think that you would find the rates to be very, very different.

I'm sure. I wasn't single. My wife's insurance plan at work required me to pay more per month so we found independent insurance. I wasn't that young either. I agree the rates are different but so are the risks. I think the fundamental difference though is that you are weighing in on the side that "access to healthcare" requires insurance. I've not found that to be true. Access to healthcare requires money.

[BigFatMeanie]

Originally Posted by Frank Ryan

You must not like to mingle with poor people much.

In my opinion, there are very very few poor people in the USA. In my opinion, there are plenty of poor people in the Philippines, Bangladesh, Africa, etc. but not too many in the USA.

[K-dog]

Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie

Some additional details,

I've never lost a job or been "in-between" jobs. Occasionally, I've had to wait for 30 days at my new job before my health insurance kicks in. In this case, I've paid for the COBRA coverage (expensive as heck) out of my own pocket.

I've had life insurance from the day I got married. I've always made sure I had appropriate coverage on my home and autos. I've maintained an umbrella policy in the past which come in very handy when I got sued for posting on the internet (a long story). I've considered supplemental insurance such as Short Term Disability/Long Term Disability, etc. but I don't currently carry any policy of that type.

Insurance is important. Insurance is especially important when you're poor and can't afford to swallow $20K in medical bills or $10K of car repairs. My hierarchy of expenses listed in order of importance:

1a. Tithing
1b. Insurance
1c. Gas/Electric/Water/Sewer
1d. Mortgage
2. Auto
3. Food
4. Kids braces
5. Phone
6. Kids piano lessons
7. Clothing

In other words, I would drop the kids piano lessons before I stopped paying my gas bill. Basically items 1a-1d are considered critical. Everything after that could theoretically be sacrificed but the items 1 define our bare minimum cash burn rate.

Wow. I'm impressed. I'm at the other end of the spectrum. I ran without car insurance for quite a while because I didn't get into accidents and the fines for driving uninsured were cheaper than the insurance. Eventually I had to pay the piper because judges started getting mad and raising the penalties. I admit to being a bit of a gambler.

[Clark Addison]

Originally Posted by K-dog

I'm sure. I wasn't single. My wife's insurance plan at work required me to pay more per month so we found independent insurance. I wasn't that young either. I agree the rates are different but so are the risks. I think the fundamental difference though is that you are weighing in on the side that "access to healthcare" requires insurance. I've not found that to be true. Access to healthcare requires money.

I don't understand what difference that makes to most of the uninsured. If you don't have enough money for insurance, you don't usually have enough for health care, outside of doctor visits and the like. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean.

[K-dog]

Originally Posted by Clark Addison

I don't understand what difference that makes to most of the uninsured. If you don't have enough money for insurance, you don't usually have enough for health care, outside of doctor visits and the like. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean.

There is a difference though. I'm asserting that many of the uninsured aren't doing it because they don't have enough money but because they choose to spend money on different things. Then, if they need health care they can pay for it. I assert that the reason they are uninsured is they prefer to allocate their money differently and bear the risk. I say, let them bear the risk.

For example, I had no health insurance and I got hit in the head by a Christmas Tree. I went to the hospital and got staples put in my head. Later, I had the staples removed. I set up a payment plan and paid for the services.