I am really alarmed about developments with Russia.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I'm sure this is comforting to Lithuania, Latvia, Ukraine, et al. That when the bombs fall, and tanks roll in, and children are dead in the streets, we will be whistling, and talking about the dangers of a certain man in headdress hiding in a cave in Pakistan.

Latvia and Lithuania are NATO members. As UD says, such a move on a NATO member would bring a swift and harsh response. If not, then the alliance is broken, and then God help Europe.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I'm sure this is comforting to Lithuania, Latvia, Ukraine, et al. That when the bombs fall, and tanks roll in, and children are dead in the streets, we will be whistling, and talking about the dangers of a certain man in headdress hiding in a cave in Pakistan.

Mike, are you suggesting the US use military force to stop Russia?

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

one at a time. over fake provocations. Like the Gulf of Tonkin.

If Russia is that huge of a threat, NOW is the time to encourage the European nations to step up to the plate and build their defenses. We can't do it for them forever, and being caught in the middle is not in our best interests over the long term or we will forever be drawn into European conflicts like Bosnia that should have been handled by the EU rather than us.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Mike, are you suggesting the US use military force to stop Russia?

From taking the above 3 countries? It has to be strongly considered.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

one at a time. over fake provocations. Like the Gulf of Tonkin.

I don't know if you are right, but the real question is how far could they go before they experienced any actual consequence (whether military, economic, loss of influence)? Having been so successful in Georgia, it is certainly worth asking why we would expect them not to walk right up to the edge of where the consequences begin.

As an aside, it would be interesting to see the European reaction to a new threat, knowing that this time the US couldn't shoulder the whole burden. The British and French would be willing but their economies would limit them. There is no question in my mind that Germany could in a period of a few years become a formidable military power. The others are all too weak.

In some ways we are back to 1914.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by BlueK

If Russia is that huge of a threat, NOW is the time to encourage the European nations to step up to the plate and build their defenses. We can't do it for them forever, and being caught in the middle is not in our best interests over the long term or we will forever be drawn into European conflicts like Bosnia that should have been handled by the EU rather than us.

we will have to sell them the technology and weapons.

Really what we need is for a CIA mission that discretely assasinates Mr. Putin.

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I don't know if you are right, but the real question is how far could they go before they experienced any actual consequence (whether military, economic, loss of influence)? Having been so successful in Georgia, it is certainly worth asking why we would expect them not to walk right up to the edge of where the consequences begin.

As an aside, it would be interesting to see the European reaction to a new threat, knowing that this time the US couldn't shoulder the whole burden. The British and French would be willing but their economies would limit them. There is no question in my mind that Germany could in a period of a few years become a formidable military power. The others are all too weak.

In some ways we are back to 1914.

Individual states might be too weak, but there is no reason the EU together couldn't come up with a powerful military force if they wanted to. But they won't as long as they have the crutch of the US supporting NATO like we do. They don't want to because they don't want to spend the money and we're doing it for them.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by BlueK

Individual states might be too weak, but there is no reason the EU together couldn't come up with a powerful military force if they wanted to. But they won't as long as they have the crutch of the US supporting NATO like we do. They don't want to because they don't want to spend the money and we're doing it for them.

How can an EU force do anything, when the countries of the EU don't agree?

Germany has been sidling up to Russia in this latest affair. UK has been upset. France is posturing. Etc. EU force is worthless. More worthless than NATO forces.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

In some ways we are back to 1914.

Really? Feels more like the 1950s (Soviet [now Russian] expansionism, Western [and now parts of Eastern] Europe joining to counter the threat, the specter of nuclear conflict, etc.).

Your comments speak to the importance of NATO in maintaining peace in Europe, as well as continued U.S. commitment to the region.

[MikeWaters]

speaks to our need to suffocate the Russian economy by becoming indepedence of oil.