Palestinian Right of Return

[Mindfulcoug]

Originally Posted by Tex

LOL, mindful. We must educate you on the meaning of the words: photo-op.

Sure ,i would welcome that. Then ,since i hate to owe people who teach me, i will educate you on the meaning of the words" Israel must be wiped off the map" in an attempt to provide a free misconception environment.
Will you be disappointed if i tell you i already knew the meaning of the word ? i hope not.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by galapagos

true, another example for oppressing people: indians by americans. So israelis aren't that bad when reviewing their actions towards palestinians

With all due respect, I find this kind of moral calculus appalling.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by mindfulcoug

Sure ,i would welcome that. Then ,since i hate to owe people who teach me, i will educate you on the meaning of the words" Israel must be wiped off the map" in an attempt to provide a free misconception environment.
Will you be disappointed if i tell you i already knew the meaning of the word ? i hope not.

Interesting. Are you saying "Israel must be wiped off the map" is really just hyperbole? What is the real meaning of that phrase?

If it is much less than it seems, is that how all Iranian politicians speak? Kind of like a nation full of Rev. Wrights?

[SeattleUte]

Waters' and to a lesser extent Lebowki's positions in this thread have been no different than that of apologists for Pearl Harbor, the invasions of the Philippines, Singapore and India, and the rape of Nanking, citing Western "imperialism." The fundamwntal problem is that the Islamic power structure is thoroughly morally bankrupt. The reason the Israel-Palestine problem is insoluble is that the Arabs have refused to entertain an outcome in which the state of Israel exists. Meanwhile, Arab leaders, including our friends, set wordwide records for human rights abuses. To me it's clear that the main reason Israel's enemies have taken up the Palestinian cause is it's a pretext to wage war on the only liberal democracy in the neighborhood. Islamic militants who purport to speak for the Palestinians are just this epoch's Nazis. Waters, you're as sophomoric as Jane Fonda in 1968.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Waters' and to a lesser extent Lebowki's positions in this thread have been no different than that of apologists for Pearl Harbor, the invasions of the Philippines, Singapore and India, and the rape of Nanking, citing Western "imperialism." The fundamwntal problem is that the Islamic power structure is thoroughly morally bankrupt. The reason the Israel-Palestine problem is insoluble is that the Arabs have refused to entertain an outcome in which the state of Israel exists. Meanwhile, Arab leaders, including our friends, set wordwide records for human rights abuses. To me it's clear that the main reason Israel's enemies have taken up the Palestinian cause is it's a pretext to wage war on the only liberal democracy in the neighborhood. Islamic militants who purport to speak for the Palestinians are just this epoch's Nazis. Waters, you're as sophomoric as Jane Fonda in 1968.

You are a bright man, SU, but a rambling, hyperbolic post like this is essentially an admission of defeat. Mike and I have focused on specific abuses in the occupied territories and have questioned why the US would turn a blind eye to such abuses. You have failed to disprove or even address any of these abuses. We have also listed specific things that could be done to force a resolution. You have listed nothing. And to state that any sympathy for the Palestinians is simply a cover for a war on democracy is beyond absurd. That's something I would expect to hear from Bill O'Reilly, not you.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

You are a bright man, SU, but a rambling, hyperbolic post like this is essentially an admission of defeat. Mike and I have focused on specific abuses in the occupied territories and have questioned why the US would turn a blind eye to such abuses. You have failed to disprove or even address any of these abuses. We have also listed specific things that could be done to force a resolution. You have listed nothing. And to state that any sympathy for the Palestinians is simply a cover for a war on democracy is beyond absurd. That's something I would expect to hear from Bill O'Reilly, not you.

I disagree the post rambled.

I'm not saying the Israelis are above reproach. I'm not going to try to make that case. For that matter, I'm sure you could list hundreds of terrible, inhumane things we and the British did to the German and the Japanese civilians, many which did not advance winning the Second World War. War, all-out war in defense of a people's very existence, such as the Ango-American forces faced in WWII and Israel hs faced since 1945, leads inexorably to excess. Anyone can sit back and highlight inhumane deeds by warriors against despots whose objective is enslavement of mankind.

The crux, though, is that since the UN resolution in 1947 the Palestinians' Islamic leaders have been repeatedly confronted with opportunity to negotiate a resolution, and by their words and deeds have shown that compromise is unacceptable. You can say that Israel has a secret, undisclosed agenda, but Israel has publically expressed willingness to work toward compromise. And Israel is a democracy, and Israel does not engage in suicide bombings on civilians, nor institutionally abuse women, nor committ egregious human rights abuses domestically (as opposed to arguable excess in dealing with an enemy civilian population).

What is the underlying problem? The problem is Islam, radical Islam. There will be no compromise while radical Islam represents the Palestinians' interests. Their ideology, their objective, is no secret. It's to establish a worldwide Islamic dictatorship and destroy the Western democratic institutions, starting with Israel. As quixotic as their ultimate objective may seem, their activities in trying to achieve them put billions of free people at risk. What shall we do when radical Islam's acquisition of nuclear arms becomes a real risk? What military aggression designed to prevent such an outcome would be too extreme?

Radical Islam is cut from the same cloth as the Nazis and the Soviets. I am sure the Palestinians are by and large peace loving and good, like most any civilian population, but these are their leaders. Similar leaders led to the bombing of Dresden and similar moral calculus by Anglo-American leaders. Still, our acts were not morally equivalent to Nazi Germany's or fascist Japan's. When you see radical Islam in that light, the whole cast of the Israel-Palestine problem changes.

[SeattleUte]

After Iraq invaded Kuwait Bin Ladin pleaded with Saudi Arabia's royal family not to "defile" the Middle East with American soldiers. He argued he could organize a resistance or use his family's influence to prevent Iraq invading Saudi Arabia, but regardless nothing was worth bringing in the Americans. They see Israel's very presence as a defilement of their lands. Radical Islam opposes tourism, any outside presence. That speaks volumes to me. To them, Israel is simply a cancer. They don't really care about the Palestinians; they're beside the point.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by mindfulcoug

Sure ,i would welcome that. Then ,since i hate to owe people who teach me, i will educate you on the meaning of the words" Israel must be wiped off the map" in an attempt to provide a free misconception environment.
Will you be disappointed if i tell you i already knew the meaning of the word ? i hope not.

If you know what a photo-op is, then you also know why those photos don't dissuade many people from believing Ahmadinejad wants to destroy Israel.

[Cali Coug]

This photo-op wasn't quite as helpful. Note the banner on the podium.

[Mindfulcoug]

Originally Posted by Tex

If you know what a photo-op is, then you also know why those photos don't dissuade many people from believing Ahmadinejad wants to destroy Israel.

people who are honestly seeking for the truth ,will gradually find it . As this thread is a result of such a desire .You may be the one who is willing to be the last to know.its up to you.