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View Poll Results: How old when you learned of polyandry by JS? | |||
Before baptism? | 1 | 2.17% | |
Before puberty or 14? | 8 | 17.39% | |
Before 20? | 7 | 15.22% | |
After 20 or after mission? | 23 | 50.00% | |
After 30? | 7 | 15.22% | |
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll |
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04-30-2007, 06:18 PM | #31 | |
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04-30-2007, 06:25 PM | #32 | |
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There is no historical/scriptural precedent. We have ample historical/scriptural precedent indicating the exact opposite, however. We have the story of Joseph Smith pleading with God to let Martin Harris have the 116 pages, despite being told "no" twice and when Martin Harris lost the pages, Joseph Smith lost his ability to translate the plates for a season. That incident is a mere trifle compared to mass adultery in the grand scheme of things. The assertion that God somehow just let 'Joseph do what Joseph got to do' is unfathomably intellectually and scripturally incongruous. Last edited by Indy Coug; 04-30-2007 at 06:28 PM. |
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04-30-2007, 06:33 PM | #33 |
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Here is an idea:
Years ago, God commanded that the saints live the law of consecration, but it was later recanted because the saints were not ready for it. Perhaps the law of polygamy is the same way, being more profound than we realize, insomuch that even our mortal prophets struggle with certain, um, side effects. As much as we tend to deify our prophets while still in mortality, the reality is they are subject to the same temptations and weaknesses as the rest of us. |
04-30-2007, 06:37 PM | #34 | |
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When they do, they are punished for their lack of faithfulness and sometimes they are also given a lower law that will enable them to have a greater measure of obedience, but a corresponding diminished capacity to be blessed for their obedience. I'm not willing to accept that God is going to passively stand by while His prophets are engaging in repeated gross sexual improprieties. |
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04-30-2007, 06:38 PM | #35 |
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Oliver Cowdery, in an 1835 letter to W.W. Phelps, describes Joseph Smith:
"I do not pretend that he is not a man subject to passion like other men, beset with infirmities and compassed with weaknesses; but if he is, all men were so before him, and a pretence to the contrary would argue a more than mortal, which would at once destroy the whole system of the religion of the Lord Jesus"
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04-30-2007, 06:45 PM | #36 |
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Accounts of Joseph Smith's personal weaknesses:
D&C 1:24 "These commandments…were given unto my servants in their weakness." D&C 3:6-11,15 "how oft you have transgressed…you should have been faithful." D&C 5:21 "repent and walk more uprightly…yield to the persuasions of men no more." D&C 6:19 Oliver Cowdery is directed to "admonish him in his faults." D&C 20:5 "was entangled again in the vanities of the world." D&C 24:2 "thou art not excusable in thy trangressions." D&C 67:5 "he has sinned." D&C 67:5 "he has sinned." D&C 67:5 "his imperfections you have known." D&C 90:17 "be admonished in all your high-mindedness and pride." D&C 93:47 "have not kept the commandments and must needs stand rebuked." D&C 111:1 The treasure hunting purposes of the trip to Salem are called "follies." D&C 132:50 "I…will forgive all your sins." And from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith: Teachings, 89 "a man subject to like passions…" Teachings, 90 "I may do many things inadvertently that are not right in the sight of God." Teachings, 216 "I…feel to repent of all my sins." Teachings, 158 "the wrong that I do is through the frailty of human nature." Teachings, 268 "I was but a man…must not expect me to be perfect." Teachings, 303 "I do not want you to think that I am very righteous." Teachings, 315 "I am subject to like passions as other men." Teachings, 368 "I never told you I was perfect." From The Personal Writings of Joseph Smith, p. 238: "Shed tears of sorrow for my folly in Sufering the adversary of my Soul to have so much power over me as he has had in times past." (letter of Joseph to Emma) Messenger and Advocate 1 (December, 1834) p. 40 "never have pretended to be any other than a man." Times and Seasons 4 (May 15, 1843) p. 200 "Did not profess to be a very good man…a sinner like other men."
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"Do not despise the words of prophets, but test everything; hold fast to what is good; " 1 Thess. 5:21 (NRSV) We all trust our own unorthodoxies. |
04-30-2007, 06:47 PM | #37 | |
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04-30-2007, 06:47 PM | #38 | |
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If we accept the concept that polygamy is ever proper, then perhaps God's eternal view of sexuality is not so prudish as many would have us believe. Thus God did not destroy Joseph for what might be seen as improprieties.
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04-30-2007, 06:49 PM | #39 |
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Sometimes you can receive forgiveness for things you can't receive permission.
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04-30-2007, 06:59 PM | #40 | |
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Abraham was commanded by God to take Hagar, even though Ishmael didn't receive his birthright. I think there is ample precedent to show that God has shown more flexibility in what is and isn't sexually permissible, but that 'permissiveness' was not due to individual initiative, but due FIRST to His divine decree. There is ample precedent to show that those that chose to act outside the bounds of what was deemed acceptable by God were condemned for their actions. I am led to conclude one of two things about the issue of Joseph Smith and polyandry. 1. It didn't happen in the way protrayed by those that wrote about it. 2. God, for whatever reason, signed off on Joseph Smith's polyandric ways, and as such was not sinful, even though that conduct is radically different than the accepted norm in most societies. |
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