Another gay Mormon outs himself

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Why bother doing this?

And his 500,000 number sounds ludicrous..

Apparantly that Fiesta Bowl year did some wonders for the University of Utah fanbase. Those empty seats at Rice Eccles be damned!

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Most of the discussion in the SSA arena centers on gay men. I don't have data on the incidence rate of lesbians.

OK, fair.

But in attacking his data as a window to his ignorance, you basically admit that you really have no basis for your data, either.

Not smarter. Less dumb.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

OK, fair.

But in attacking his data as a window to his ignorance, you basically admit that you really have no basis for your data, either.

Not smarter. Less dumb.

The anus,,,I mean onus is on the reporter/writier to provide that data, not the person who pointed out that he has no data to back it up with.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

OK, fair.

But in attacking his data as a window to his ignorance, you basically admit that you really have no basis for your data, either.

Not smarter. Less dumb.

I haven't provided my data.

My data stems from the original Johnson and Master's prisoner study, followed up by a few studies of the German and Dutch military.

There are so many variables to control for, that no meaningful study will ever be produced. However, his reliance upon the ten percent rule frequently relied upon by gay advocates is bunk. I'm certain Indy, jay and Pelagius could destroy his statistical assumptions.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Archaea

My data stems from the original Johnson and Master's prisoner study, followed up by a few studies of the German and Dutch military.

There are so many variables to control for, that no meaningful study will ever be produced.

Not smarter. Less dumb.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

The anus,,,I mean onus is on the reporter/writier to provide that data, not the person who pointed out that he has no data to back it up with.

Perhaps providing the data would just be a big pain in the butt?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I haven't provided my data.

My data stems from the original Johnson and Master's prisoner study, followed up by a few studies of the German and Dutch military.

There are so many variables to control for, that no meaningful study will ever be produced. However, his reliance upon the ten percent rule frequently relied upon by gay advocates is bunk. I'm certain Indy, jay and Pelagius could destroy his statistical assumptions.

He didn't qualify it as "only male" as far as I can tell. That's you injecting your own prejudices. If you count both male and female (as almost anyone else would), you cut that 10% in half. 13 million members. 500k is actually less than 4% according to my calculations.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

He didn't qualify it as "only male" as far as I can tell. That's you injecting your own prejudices. If you count both male and female (as almost anyone else would), you cut that 10% in half. 13 million members. 500k is actually less than 4% according to my calculations.

Read his quote again, as it is ambiguous. The beginning does not identify gender but the end of the paragraph focuses solely upon men.

My predicament is not unique in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. By some estimates there are as many as 500,000 gay Mormons. For us, the church has erected a crippling series of obstacles which have driven many gay Mormons to suicide. Utah has the highest rate of suicides among males age 15-24. Hardest hit by church policies are younger gay Mormon men who have had to create “anti-suicide pacts” to help each other live until they can eventually cope with a church that denies them life-affirming relationships.

So even the 4 percent, if your assumption is correct, is unsupportable, except by tainted evidence misconstrued by gay advocacy groups.

For example, I do not know if the incidence rates varies by gender, by culture, by age group or a host other factors.

And speaking of incidence rates does not address the issue whether we're speaking in binary or spectral terms. Gay or not gay, what the hell is that?

[woot]

I think it's safe to say that few if any gay folks would convert to Mormonism, so the average likelihood of homosexuality would only be found among those born into Mormonism. I don't know what the average likelihood is, but it seems we should assume it to be slightly less among the general church membership. Still, it's safe to say there are at least tens of thousands, and I don't envy them. It has to be tough.

[Tex]

A couple of comments.

Utah has the highest rate of suicides among males age 15-24.

Huh?

Was this a complete non sequitur, or is there some connection to being gay? Are only 15-24 aged males gay? Are only 15-24 aged gay males depressed enough to commit suicide? What percentage of those committing suicide were gay? What percentage were LDS?

It is clear to me, as it must be to most literate people, that homosexuality is simply a human biological variant, an immutable trait appearing in an ever-present segment of the human population.
...
If I help others through this column by encouraging kind and tolerant discussion and not rancor ...

I don't see calling those whom you're trying persuade "illiterate" as an effective technique for tolerant and non-rancorous discussion, but that's me.

I believe that the church’s policy on gays will eventually change. I understand that the church wishes to remain in the mainstream in the eyes of our society. When a tipping point comes in social enlightenment about the situation of gays, as it surely will, the church will undoubtedly respond as it did to the civil rights movement when the priesthood was allowed to men of all races in 1978, or as it did when the practice of polygamy was discontinued in the 19th century in response to social and governmental pressure.

Reminds me of a story I've told here before, about an elder in my mission who had a lady ready for baptism, except for the doctrine of reincarnation. She just couldn't give it up. The enterprising young man then showed her the 9th Article of Faith and said, "maybe reincarnation is just one of those doctrines that will be revealed in the future." She agreed to be baptized, and almost would've been had the zone leader not caught it.

Wishful thinking.

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Parenthetically, I'm curious as to how this man's membership will be affected. Depends on the strictness of his Stake President and how much more activism he engages in, I suppose.