07-23-2008, 07:08 PM | #41 | |
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An 8 year old is not. That makes sense. The bar that the church places in front of 8 year olds is a 10 minute interview with a Bishop. Whereas for a nine year old it is a series of missionary visits probably over weeks and a meeting with the Bishop. Which kid has invested more, assuming the same education in the church over those 8 and 9 years, respectively? |
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07-23-2008, 07:09 PM | #42 | |
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07-23-2008, 07:09 PM | #43 |
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That is a differnt issue. The question raised is can an 8 year old choose. What a 9 year old must be taught is another matter altogether.
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07-23-2008, 07:11 PM | #44 | |
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I am not suggesting that kids are forced into baptism. I am simply saying that it is silly to suggest that an 8 year old is making an "informed" decision. They are given no other choice in the matter, no other options. Nobody ever entertains the notion of NOT getting baptized. It is simply an assumption that gets ingrained into their heads from an early age. While my kids are not 8, they are in primary. they have already received lessons on baptism and have been to stake baptisms twice.....the Primary leader tells all the kids that they will all be baptized when they turn 8, as well. They get indoctrinated early on. We all do. I am not against it. I have said a bunch of times that I am following the same pattern. But the practice of baptizing an 8 year old is closer to social coersion than it is to informed convenant making. Talk about extremely patronizing.....comparing an 8 year old's "decision" to be baptized to someone else who has actually studied, pondered, made a conscious decision as to how baptism will require an internal change, the knowledge that you are taking upon yourself the name of Christ, etc.. etc...8 year old kids lack that capacity. These are the same 8 year olds that would eat an entire bag of candy for dinner if you let them.
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07-23-2008, 07:11 PM | #45 | |
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The requirements for baptism should be the same for all. A policy that has different requirements for baptism does not mesh with the scriptures. If it is simply believing in Christ, seeking repentance, then that is what it should be. |
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07-23-2008, 07:13 PM | #46 |
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The sisters in my mission chose to have their "investigator" baptized on his 9th birthday, so he wouldn't be a child of record, but instead would be a convert baptism.
I thought that was a nice resume padder. |
07-23-2008, 07:13 PM | #47 | |
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At some point, the Church has to draw a line to eliminate the presumption, and it is perfectly reasonable to do so at 9. If a child is baptized after 8, it is more likely than not that the child either was not raised in the church, or was not raised in full activity (or had a father like Waters, which falls into a different category). And think about the discussions taught to 9-year olds. Have you never attended one? They cover "tithing" and the other items on your list in very simplistic, cursory ways. Any child who has been semi-active in primary will have been taught these principles to a much greater degree. It's about the assumption, Waters, and it is one the Church is perfectly reasonable to make.
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07-23-2008, 07:14 PM | #48 |
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It's about presumptions and assumptions.
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"Now I say that I know the meaning of my life: 'To live for God, for my soul.' And this meaning, in spite of its clearness, is mysterious and marvelous. Such is the meaning of all existence." Levin, Anna Karenina, Part 8, Chapter 12 |
07-23-2008, 07:15 PM | #49 |
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Yeah, I'm always surprised with the prophetic annoucements from Levin and Creekster don't end all debate.
Creekster and Levin, are saying, I suppose that there is no difference between the moral reasoning of a 8 and 9 year old, but that there is one between the ages of 7 and 8. |
07-23-2008, 07:15 PM | #50 | |
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