07-04-2008, 11:26 PM | #41 |
Demiurge
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by the way, I deleted my harsher statements before you posted your reply.
Your most cogent thought in this thread is that I wasw demeaning you in my last post. That's batting under the Mendoza line, my friend. |
07-04-2008, 11:37 PM | #42 | |
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I may be a lousy scientist, in that I concur, but I understand meaning and rhetoric. So I understand your inferences. But as I understand analysis of mental aspects as they interact with congenital impulses, it seems too linear to infer a causal relationship. It would be interesting to see if a meaningful reliable study could be constructed. The problem I see would be controls and definitions. Again I'm no researcher but some of this doesn't require being a scientist, just understanding the process. Relying upon urban myths bother me. I remember years ago on Utefans when the statement of Utah's morals contributing to "one of the highest rates of teen pregnancies". I quickly turned to the CDC to discover that the myth, not only was false, but dead wrong. Utah may have a teen pregnancy problem as does our entire union, but at that time the data showed, the myth was wrong. So when some playwright opines Utah has some suicide problem in excess of others I can imagine finding similar contradictory evidence. Heck, I seem to remember black male suicide rates to be astronomical in certain urban centers. Now to be fair, I recognize the suggestion that LDS gays may have higher suicide rate than other gays, but suicide is certainly a much bigger problem in other segments of the population.
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07-05-2008, 02:25 AM | #43 |
Charon
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First of all, let me state that from day one I have been on record as supportive of gay rights and critical of how we treat gays both in the LDS church and in Mormon culture at large. I believe that this is the "priesthood ban" of our generation and it will eventually change. I do not doubt that gay church members face tremendous hardships that most of us cannot begin to fully comprehend.
Nevertheless, whenever I hear statistics about suicide rates in Utah and/or the LDS church my bullshit meter starts to red-line. I have seen these stats debunked time and time again. Perhaps the stats are correct in this case. If so, it shouldn't be too tough to find some hard data to back it up. By the way, here is an article about a study directly related to suicide rates within the LDS church: http://www.adherents.com/largecom/ld...icideRate.html For the record: I don't have any gay family members, but I have had a family member commit suicide.
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"... the arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice." Martin Luther King, Jr. Last edited by Jeff Lebowski; 07-05-2008 at 04:20 AM. |
07-05-2008, 02:47 AM | #44 | |
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07-05-2008, 02:50 AM | #45 | |
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07-05-2008, 03:36 AM | #46 | |
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So I take a cop out that God some how makes up for it for those who endure this situation through the miracle of the atonement, at least I hope so. Beyond that, it is extremely perplexing to me. The recent Italian study showing nature producing it to increase fecundity in female siblings.
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07-05-2008, 03:52 AM | #47 | |
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It makes things so much simpler if homosexuals are actually heterosexuals who have made a bad "lifestyle" choice. I think that is the imaginary world that some members and leaders are living in. If that is your mindset, you don't even want to acknowledge that there may be "gays in the Church" to be concerned about. |
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07-05-2008, 04:20 AM | #48 | |
Charon
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http://www.adherents.com/largecom/ld...icideRate.html
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07-05-2008, 04:27 AM | #49 | |
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07-05-2008, 04:40 AM | #50 | |
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