As the temple recommend renewal date draws nigh....

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by T Blue

I'm not implying you would get angry and start yelling or anything like that, I'm simply saying that if you were to go into your interview and tell the Stake President how wrong you think the Church is for their stand on this issue, and how you feel there is ZERO ground for the Church to base this stand on, you would get more than a group hug and some little pick you up line.

Now of course you won't do that, even though you have NO PROBLEM doing it in here, see the difference?

Show us that you aren't just a weak sauce pussy, that you are a man of conviction, that you aren't a lemming who just toes the company line, drop that bomb on him and then tell us the response you get.

No wonder you are confused. What you described is not my position at all.

I have never said the Church has ZERO ground....I have said numerous times that they have provided no compelling reasons and my questions remain unanswered.

I also have said that my opposition to Prop 8 is because I don't know enough. The primary difference between "us" and "them" is that many in the Church admit they thay do not know what the effect of gay marriage will be on society, but they will still vote to oppose it. My stance has been, since I, too, do not know how gay marriage will affect society, I don't feel comfortable opposing it....especially since almost all the reasons articulated against it do not really hold up to any scrutiny....they all seemed based on conjecture.

So now I understand. You are not an extreme rightist. You simply lack reading comprehension.

You view this as an attack on the Church, when in reality, it is a request for more dialogue and answers.

Out of curiosity, where do you live? You have spoken of Provo before. Is that where you call home?

[Indy Coug]

Did Moses tell the snake-bitten Israelites why looking upon the brazen serpent would make them whole?

Random Israelite: "Yeah, you told me I should do it, but you haven't given me a compelling reason why that will make any difference. Get back to me when you actually have a reason besides 'I told you so.'"

[ute4ever]

Has DDD been bitten by a snake?

[cougarobgon]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Seing as how cougarguard.com has become gaychat24/7.com....

Reading that passage from the BYU HC made me wonder......for those that are not supportive of Prop 8 and do not have an issue with homosexuals.....

....does that constitute a sympathy for those groups or individuals whose teaching are contrary to the Church?

How would you answer that question in the TR interview?

I know the BYU HC is not totally representative of Church policy, but much of it is similar. Since the HC decries "advocacy" as an actionable behavior, I wonder what the Church thinks about those who openly state that they do not support Prop 8, Prop 22, Prop 2, or whatever the local state prop may be? And not just with regards to the Prop 8 issue, but to gay rights groups, in general. If you truly have no problem with them and have sympathy for them, seems like that is something that should be discussed in the TR interview, no?

I believe temple recommend interviews are an opportunity for the individual to evaluate their lives and determine if they are living a life that is in harmony with the teachings of the Gospel. When conducting interviews, I always made it point to tell the individual that other than themselves, only Heavenly Father knew whether or not they were worthy to enter the temple. I explained that unless Heavenly Father prompted me to deny them a temple recommend or unless I was aware of a serious transgression, that they would be getting one. I further explained that the questions require a simple "yes" or "no" answer. So to Triplett Daddy, it is your call.

If I were your bishop I would ask you something like this: Triplet Daddy, "Do you sympathize with or support any group or individual whose teaching are contrary to or oppose the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? If your answer is no, I would go on to the next question. If your understanding of the question prompts you to answer yes, I would want to clarify why you answered yes, because I know individuals can be very hard on themselves when evaluating their own worthiness. If you were to then explain your position on proposition 8 without critizing or degrading the Church and its leaders for the position they have taken with respect to the prop, I believe I would sign your recommend. However, if you go on a tirade on how the Church leaders are blind and out of touch with reality and that the First Presidency members are a bunch of old dudes who need to catch up with the times and that they are not true prophets seers and revelators because of the position they have taken, etc...I would probably not sign your recommend. You can then of course take your case to the Stake President who I believe can sign on both signature lines.

I recall only once not signing an individual's temple recommend and that was for a different issue. I agonized over my decision because that individual would end up missing her only child's sealing. However, I was aware of the transgression and I could not in good conscience sign the recommend. Most bishops want you to attend the temple rather than keep you out.

My 2 cents.

[YOhio]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Did Moses tell the snake-bitten Israelites why looking upon the brazen serpent would make them whole?

Random Israelite: "Yeah, you told me I should do it, but you haven't given me a compelling reason why that will make any difference. Get back to me when you actually have a reason besides 'I told you so.'"

Many plain and precious truths have been lost in translation.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Did Moses tell the snake-bitten Israelites why looking upon the brazen serpent would make them whole?

Random Israelite: "Yeah, you told me I should do it, but you haven't given me a compelling reason why that will make any difference. Get back to me when you actually have a reason besides 'I told you so.'"

That is a great example. Thanks!

[Sleeping in EQ]

Originally Posted by ute4ever

Has DDD been bitten by a snake?

I don't think he's living in OT times either.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by YOhio

Many plain and precious truths have been lost in translation.

That makes me LOL.

[ute4ever]

Originally Posted by cougarobgon

...If your understanding of the question prompts you to answer yes, I would want to clarify why you answered yes, because I know individuals can be very hard on themselves when evaluating their own worthiness.

That was my experience during my most recent TR interview, during that same question regarding associating with others whose teachings are not in harmony. I told my SP that I don't donate time or money to opposing causes, or speak out against the church's point of view. Instead, I don't want to shun anyone, and I'm not afraid of befriending someone who lives an active homosexual lifestyle, or a member of a Catholic parish, or is related to muslim radicals, etc. Isn't the second greatest commandment to love your neighbor?

His response was essentially, associating oneself with those whose lives are not in harmony with church teachings does not render you unworthy. It's not what goes into the man (external influences) that defiles him, but what comes out of him. He told me I was a pseudo-missionary, and went on to the next question.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by ute4ever

That was my experience during my most recent TR interview, during that same question regarding associating with others whose teachings are not in harmony. I told my SP that I don't donate time or money to opposing causes, or speak out against the church's point of view. Instead, I don't want to shun anyone, and I'm not afraid of befriending someone who lives an active homosexual lifestyle, or a member of a Catholic parish, or is related to muslim radicals, etc. Isn't the second greatest commandment to love your neighbor?

His response was essentially, associating oneself with those whose lives are not in harmony with church teachings does not render you unworthy. It's not what goes into the man (external influences) that defiles him, but what comes out of him. He told me I was a pseudo-missionary, and went on to the next question.

I wish your Bishop was in charge of BYU. Sounds like "avoid the very appearance of evil" isn't one of those truism's he feels one has to live by.