State of the Community

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

We recently had a discussion on the sister forum where the concsensus ultimately reached was that the temple ceremonies had evolved substantially, the bulk of them were adapted from the Masons, strictly a late medieval Europe phenomenon, and the LDS Church could easily and probably should dispense with most of them.

They have evolved over time and the Masonic elements are disappearing. In a hundred years, we may not recognize them.

[RedHeadGal]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I think a strong argument can be made that the LDS leadership is very comfortable with cultural assimilation into the Christian right-wing. They want to be considered a major player in this coalition, they also want to deemphasize the things about Mormonism that are controversial to these people.

What's the draw of that group, anyway? Aren't they sort of the enemy--a la Huckabee vs. Romney?

And I admit I don't exactly have my finger on the pulse of the larger Mormon culture, but I'm not sure that's what the majority in that group wants.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

What's the draw of that group, anyway? Aren't they sort of the enemy--a la Huckabee vs. Romney?

And I admit I don't exactly have my finger on the pulse of the larger Mormon culture, but I'm not sure that's what the majority in that group wants.

It's like slipstream. As they are assimilated this is the logical place for Mormons to go. Mormons and the Christian right dislike one another like Orthodox Jews and Muslims do.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

What's the draw of that group, anyway? Aren't they sort of the enemy--a la Huckabee vs. Romney?

And I admit I don't exactly have my finger on the pulse of the larger Mormon culture, but I'm not sure that's what the majority in that group wants.

"We're Christian."

"Look how big the words 'Jesus Christ' are on our logo."

"That's behind us."

"We don't believe in that."

"I don't know that that is important to our beliefs."

"We are part of a Christian Coalition."

You will have to strain very hard to find any semblance of original Mormon gnosticism in the modern church leadership. Gordon B. Hinckley drove a stake through its heart.

[RedHeadGal]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

"We're Christian."

"Look how big the words 'Jesus Christ' are on our logo."

"That's behind us."

"We don't believe in that."

"I don't know that that is important to our beliefs."

"We are part of a Christian Coalition."

You will have to strain very hard to find any semblance of original Mormon gnosticism in the modern church leadership. Gordon B. Hinckley drove a stake through its heart.

I guess that's an interesting point. I feel like I was raised on that "yes, we're Christian" mantra. I'm not sure why we are baited into that so often. Seems like its the subject of one talk or another every Gen Conf. Did I grow up being taught the importance of the fact that we are Christian-like-others to make me feel better, less of an outsider. Or do we teach that so as to have a wider appeal to those whom we want to bring into the fold?

Ostensibly, I suppose it could be both. But that gets back to the original topic of this thread: if we do want to grow the community, is it better to be the same or to be different?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

I guess that's an interesting point. I feel like I was raised on that "yes, we're Christian" mantra. I'm not sure why we are baited into that so often. Seems like its the subject of one talk or another every Gen Conf. Did I grow up being taught the importance of the fact that we are Christian-like-others to make me feel better, less of an outsider. Or do we teach that so as to have a wider appeal to those whom we want to bring into the fold?

Ostensibly, I suppose it could be both. But that gets back to the original topic of this thread: if we do want to grow the community, is it better to be the same or to be different?

This is a not so interesting debate, because my response was always more aggressive, "who the hell cares if you think I'm a Christian, what He thinks matters. Piss off!"

I'm certain I impressed such people.

[MikeWaters]

are we trying to grow the community, or further the original movement?

because they are not the same thing.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

are we trying to grow the community, or further the original movement?

because they are not the same thing.

A fusion is in order. We are trying to further the original movement refining it insofar as it was flawed and grow it within those parameters.

[MikeWaters]

Mormonism had 3 factors which prevented assimilation:

1. Geographic isolation
2. Cultural isolation (polygamy)
3. Religious isolation (BoM, Joseph Smith, gnosticism)

Well guess what, all three of these isolative factors have withdrawn in force. And really, what we will hear in General Conference is an echo chamber of "we are the truth, we are the truth, we are the truth...." To what purpose?

Now, something we often hear from the apostles is them saying "people think we are a bunch of old fogeys who have lost touch and don't understand what is going on." Apparently this is not something they like to hear. The Lord works in mysterious ways. Perhaps this current course is and will be amazingly effective. I dont' know. Plus, no one with any power to change anything is interested in my opinion. I belong to a church without a suggestion box. So I try not to worry my little brain about it, and will let the big brains do the heavy-lifting.

[RedHeadGal]

Originally Posted by Archaea

This is a not so interesting debate, because my response was always more aggressive, "who the hell cares if you think I'm a Christian, what He thinks matters. Piss off!"

I'm certain I impressed such people.

Did you do that when you are 9 as well?