A female bishop...

[RedHeadGal]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

I believe people can experiencing transforming effects on their life and spirituality without serving in Church leadership. If I'm never a bishop I will be forever grateful, and I don't worry that never serving as one will somehow affect my standing in the hereafter.

Are you saying you want to be a bishop, then? An Elder's Quorum President? Stake President?

so although there are, according to you, "no perks" you will be forever grateful?

who says you can't have transformative experiences without being Bishop? And who says anyone aspires to it anyway?

The point is an experience (and many others, although they are not the topic here) that is apparently singular is entirely foreclosed to women just because they are women. I don't think you get the import of what it's like to be on that side.

And what are you talking about your standing in the hereafter for?

[RedHeadGal]

Originally Posted by Tex

I'm not sure "protecting the women from the burdens of leadership" is the direction I'd go with it. Even sans the priesthood, there are women of great capability carrying great burdens of leadership.

I'm more prone to walk down the logical path of role separation, the fundamental differences between men and women. Cf, Proclamation on the Family. I once wrote a Mother's Day talk outlining how motherhood and priesthood were roughly equivalent roles in their own spheres. I'll have to see if I can dig it up.

There are two Sundays a year where I have an involuntary physical, queasy reaction to the sacrament meeting: 1) ward conference, where they read all the leadership people in the ward and put the RS pres behind the deacons quorum advisor in importance and 2) Mother's Day, because of talks like that. It really is involuntary and makes me sick.

I get that people need to develop this separate roles rhetoric, but I can't accept it as gospel truth (pun intended). It doesn't make me feel better. It makes me feel worse.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I am swamped today, so I am just skimming. Let me just say that I find the "Women are lucky, they don't have to deal with the burden of leadership" comments to be condescending and sexist. I cringe when I hear that one. And I hear from plenty of women too.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

There are two Sundays a year where I have an involuntary physical, queasy reaction to the sacrament meeting: 1) ward conference, where they read all the leadership people in the ward and put the RS pres behind the deacons quorum advisor in importance and 2) Mother's Day, because of talks like that. It really is involuntary and makes me sick.

I get that people need to develop this separate roles rhetoric, but I can't accept it as gospel truth (pun intended). It doesn't make me feel better. It makes me feel worse.

It's not intended to make you "feel better." It's doctrine. Whether you can stomach it isn't my problem.

That you assign "importance" to the order in which the names are read during Ward Conference tells me a lot.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Tex

It's not intended to make you "feel better." It's doctrine. Whether you can stomach it isn't my problem.

That you assign "importance" to the order in which the names are read during Ward Conference tells me a lot.

What is doctrine? To what do you refer?

This post is rather condescending and unduly personal, isn't it? Your second paragraph is about the caliber of SU's "speaks volumes" post which has been so thoroughly lampooned.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by creekster

What is doctrine? To what do you refer?

This post is rather condescending and unduly personal, isn't it? Your second paragraph is about the caliber of SU's "speaks volumes" post which has been so thoroughly lampooned.

The doctrine of the roles of motherhood and priesthood, and how they interrelate.

Do you think it was condescending and/or personal when RedHeadGal said "talks like yours" (without having seen a word or taken time to understand any of my thoughts on the topic) make her "sick" and "feel worse"? Direct your ire somewhere else, please.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Tex

The doctrine of the roles of motherhood and priesthood, and how they interrelate.

Do you think it was condescending and/or personal when RedHeadGal said "talks like yours" (without having seen a word or taken time to understand any of my thoughts on the topic) make her "sick" and "feel worse"? Direct your ire somewhere else, please.

At least you told her what your talk was about.

Ire? You think this is ire?

[Solon]

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

so although there are, according to you, "no perks" you will be forever grateful?

who says you can't have transformative experiences without being Bishop? And who says anyone aspires to it anyway?

The point is an experience (and many others, although they are not the topic here) that is apparently singular is entirely foreclosed to women just because they are women. I don't think you get the import of what it's like to be on that side.

And what are you talking about your standing in the hereafter for?

Sage words.

There is, in my opinion, quite a condescending and chauvinistic tone to the whole "women have power - they boss their husbands around" approach to this issue. It implies that women are bitches, their husbands are harried and/or pushovers, and that female unofficial power is best wielded behind the scenes, out of sight, where they belong.

I also believe that this type of argument was used to justify denying women the right to vote in the early 20th century.

I think it's pretty clear that women have very little official voice in the LDS church. Almost everything we learn about women, their roles, etc. is offered by male voices.

I would call that ironical.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Solon

I think it's pretty clear that women have very little official voice in the LDS church. Almost everything we learn about women, their roles, etc. is offered by male voices.

So is the whining about it, ironically.

"Mothers who know ..."

[livecoug]

I am now reminded why I never come to the religions section over here.