Those who discuss past transgressions

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by bluegoose

I can't believe this discussion is going on. Seriously, if you've had sex before marriage, there is absolutely no way that you shouldn't disclose that fact to her prior to marriage, especially if she asks. Full repentance and forgiveness has nothing to do with it. Sure, the Lord will forgive and forget, but that does not change the fact that it occured. As someone who is about to commit her life to you, she has the right to know. It may or may not change her decision to pursue the relationship - that is up to her. But you can't make that decision for her.

I guess I have a bias going here since I had to tell my wife on our second date that I had a child and had never been married, but I would have to say definitely disclose and if she is the sort of judgmental, pretentious person who that would matter to (assuming you have forsaken those ways) then you have just had a preview of the rest of your life and she has done you a favor by showing you who she is.

[realtall]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm serious. Your spouse doesn't want to think about your past transgressions if you stay married. And there is a decent chance you will eventually get divorced and she will use your past sins to discredit you before the world.

No. The best course is to keep your sins to yourself. If she asks, lie about them.

Unless you have nothing to lie about, which is the best situation of course.

Its not a good idea to lie to your (future)wife. If you don't want to disclose past relationships then don't.

"I don't want to talk about it."
"The past is the past and I don't want to discuss it."

Neither one of the above is lying.

Originally Posted by bYuPride

having a marriage based on a lie doesn't sound like a good idea. if your spouse uses your past sins to discredit you before the world, she was never worth marrying anyway... better to find that out before hand right? its my opinion that marriage should be based on honesty and love.... and a bunch of other things too..

I don't think that the whole marriage is BASED on that lie but its never a good idea to lie to your (future)wife. Unless its a surprise party or something like that

[realtall]

Originally Posted by bYuPride

it's definitely up to the person obviously, but i feel it's important to let your spouse know if you have fornicated. each situation is very different though.

i would want to know if my spouse has had a porn addiction, has fornicated, been clinically depressed, etc. those are things i want to be aware of as help avoid temptation......

Now, the depression part I completely agree with. You future spouse needs to know any medical/mental health concerns for practical reasons.

As far as disclosure, I have to agree with creekster: it depends.

Illegitate child? yes
Homosexual tendencies? hell yes(how many marriages would this have prevented which were doomed to fail from the start?)
Past church action? Depends on what. Disfellowship - depends on the sin and the current resolution of the action. Past excommunication? certainly
Fornication? I guess this can take on many different circumstances as well. If the main problem was that someone made a mistake when they were 15 and everything has been taken care of, then it doesn't make any sense to dredge up the past like that. It would seem like morbid curiosity more than anything else to demand otherwise.

However, things that have been repented of & forgiven both officially & personaly are not relevant, at least those of a non-addictive nature(addictive=alcohol, drugs, gambling, a consistant problem with porn).


One more thing; it seems that this thread has concentrated solely on the 'right' that women have to know. I know that most of us are speaking from the male perspective but my impression is that perhaps that guy doesn't have this right quite as much as the girl does. This attitude is reflected by the church as a whole, IMO.

[bYuPride]

Originally Posted by bluegoose

I can't believe this discussion is going on. Seriously, if you've had sex before marriage, there is absolutely no way that you shouldn't disclose that fact to her prior to marriage, especially if she asks. Full repentance and forgiveness has nothing to do with it. Sure, the Lord will forgive and forget, but that does not change the fact that it occured. As someone who is about to commit her life to you, she has the right to know. It may or may not change her decision to pursue the relationship - that is up to her. But you can't make that decision for her.

well said.

[bYuPride]

Originally Posted by realtall

Its not a good idea to lie to your (future)wife. If you don't want to disclose past relationships then don't.

"I don't want to talk about it."
"The past is the past and I don't want to discuss it."

Neither one of the above is lying.

extinguishing a conversation by saying, "I don't want to talk about it." or "The past is the past and I don't want to discuss it." you may not be lying, but it sure sounds like you're hiding something.

Originally Posted by realtall

One more thing; it seems that this thread has concentrated solely on the 'right' that women have to know. I know that most of us are speaking from the male perspective but my impression is that perhaps that guy doesn't have this right quite as much as the girl does. This attitude is reflected by the church as a whole, IMO.

women may not have the 'right' to know, but i would say in most cases, disclosing things that are that serious to your future companion is the 'right thing to do'.

not everybody will agree with that, as everybody is different and each situation is unique. i guess the best thing to do if you may be in a situation like that is to just follow the spirit... then you can know what is the best thing for you. following the spirit is always the best advice right?

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by realtall

However, things that have been repented of & forgiven both officially & personaly are not relevant, at least those of a non-addictive nature(addictive=alcohol, drugs, gambling, a consistant problem with porn).

I still say what is "relevant" is up to her when it comes to your past. And up to you when it comes to her past. There are legitimate reasons for wanting to know about things like fornication. I really don't understand why somebody who has "taken care of" that problem would be so worried about disclosing it to the future spouse. The argument so far has been that there is no legitimate reason for her to want to know. I find that argument ridiculous.

Originally Posted by realtall

One more thing; it seems that this thread has concentrated solely on the 'right' that women have to know. I know that most of us are speaking from the male perspective but my impression is that perhaps that guy doesn't have this right quite as much as the girl does. This attitude is reflected by the church as a whole, IMO.

I totally disagree. The man has the exact same right to any information that he feels is important in making his decision.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I find it fascinating that this is such a polarizing issue.

My wife has never asked me anything about my premarital sex life. And I have never asked her. Never has been an issue either way.

[FarrahWaters]

Why would I want to know? (non-rhetorical) I guess I like to have these things out in the open from the beginning. And I don't see any evidence of a double standard about the girl having more right to know than the guy-- most of the people who post here are men, and are putting themselves in the hypothetical transgressor's shoes. If I had had premarital sex, I would feel strange not divulging this info to my husband. It makes sense to discuss sex with your future spouse, (expectations, comfort levels), and to not divulge any prior sex life seems strange to me.

I guess I don't understand why people would be afraid to tell their future spouse. What are they afraid of? Or is it that some people genuinely have no interest in knowing?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by FarrahWaters

Why would I want to know? (non-rhetorical) I guess I like to have these things out in the open from the beginning. And I don't see any evidence of a double standard about the girl having more right to know than the guy-- most of the people who post here are men, and are putting themselves in the hypothetical transgressor's shoes. If I had had premarital sex, I would feel strange not divulging this info to my husband. It makes sense to discuss sex with your future spouse, (expectations, comfort levels), and to not divulge any prior sex life seems strange to me.

I guess I don't understand why people would be afraid to tell their future spouse. What are they afraid of? Or is it that some people genuinely have no interest in knowing?

To me, it seems as if it's a lack of trust.

If you ask about something that personal, you're prying.

If a person has repented of sins, why would you want to stick a stick in a person's eye reminding them of a sin?

If somebody has overcome it, shouldn't you also aid them in forgetting it, or is it your aim to say in the midst of a fight, "Oh, well at least I was a virgin before we married!"

That seems to be the motivation of most women when they ask, to use it as a weapon for a fight, to injure the emotions and to destroy faith.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by Archaea

To me, it seems as if it's a lack of trust.

If you ask about something that personal, you're prying.

If a person has repented of sins, why would you want to stick a stick in a person's eye reminding them of a sin?

If somebody has overcome it, shouldn't you also aid them in forgetting it, or is it your aim to say in the midst of a fight, "Oh, well at least I was a virgin before we married!"

That seems to be the motivation of most women when they ask, to use it as a weapon for a fight, to injure the emotions and to destroy faith.

You make so many assumptions here and have taken them to the negative extreme in each case. I would turn your first sentence back on you (if ones future spouse wanted to know and asked). To me, it seems like a lack of trust if she asks and you won't tell. Do people fear their hopeful future spouse will leave them because of past transgressions? If so, then why would you want to be married to that person anyway?

It seems this all comes down to a persons motivation for wanting to know. You argue that such questions are "prying". Perhaps, that's not the word I'd use, but isn't this the biggest decision one makes in life? Isn't this the time to "pry" into areas that one feels are important? I can totally respect people like you and Homeboy who never had an interest in knowing and whose spouses felt the same way. But those situations are not what we've been talking about. We've been discussing the notion that because one has been forgiven of a transgression it is ok to lie and claim the situation never happened.

So, the real argument is "are there legitimate reasons for asking a future spouse about past transgressions?" I'd say the answer is clearly 'yes'. You argue that the motivation of "most women" is to use it as a weapon for future fights. I don't believe that's true. Do we really need to start a thread listing legitimate reasons a spouse might want to know?