07-05-2008, 05:15 AM | #51 |
Charon
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What do you mean by that?
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"... the arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice." Martin Luther King, Jr. |
07-05-2008, 07:13 AM | #52 | |
Junior Member
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Location: Down by the River in a Van
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I too have several cousins who are gay, they certainly weren't gay when they were born, at least I don't recall them wanting to have sex with me when I slept over when we were younger, I do however recall that at the time they were about 18 they most certainly swung that way. Born queer or morphed into it? They have both made the adjustment into life without the LDS Church, both of them seem very happy with their lifestyle, although it is rumored one of them may have contracted HIV. For those of you who truly believe this is the supposed "blacks with the priesthood" issue of this century, me thinks you are going to have to make a choice yourself one of these days with whether or not you will support the leaders, and whether or not your membership is important enough to give unwavering suppport of the continued anti sexually active gay stance of the brethren. |
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07-05-2008, 09:44 AM | #53 |
Assistant to the Regional Manager
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I'm not certain any more. Perhaps what I meant to say is an adverse reaction to gay relations is an instinctive reaction through nature for religious heteros, but there's nothing instinctive about it for race relations.
However, I immediately found my mind remember the customs of the ancient Greeks to note they did not instinctively reject the actions, i.e., pederasty. the cultures of the book rejected gay actions and still do. but I'm not longer certain about anything. Just glad I haven't had friends involved til recently. very strange are the incidences of man.
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07-05-2008, 12:49 PM | #54 | ||
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Last edited by CardiacCoug; 07-05-2008 at 02:11 PM. |
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07-05-2008, 01:39 PM | #55 | |
Senior Member
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Posts: 1,589
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This is troubling to me. Why are we always behind on these matters? You may say that God has to work through imperfect men and their incomplete knowledge, but I'm sorry--moral issues are something they need to get right. If the Church isn't reliable on these issues, if it has to wait for the science to pull it along kicking and screaming, what is it good for? I can get up and tell feel-good stories and tell everyone to be kind to their neighbor. Not to beat a dead horse, but claiming the leaders are products of their generation, be it in the arena of homophobia or racism or evolution, is not an excuse for an organization that claims to be led by God. |
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07-05-2008, 01:56 PM | #56 | |
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How can the church allow for a gay marriage without totally abandoning its concept of eternal families, husband and wife as eternal procreaters, etc? I have been thinking about this and I just don't see it. Could you do a gay marriage for time only? Certainly it couldn't be an eternal marriage. Could children be sealed? No way they could be born in the covenant. Or do we totally abandon the concept of gender being an eternal characteristic? I think we have to become something else entirely theologically to accomplish this. I'm open to ideas here, but I think this is a much, much bigger problem than just "want to." I would love to know if anyone has an idea of how to resolve it. I imagine the Lord has an idea about how to bring gays into better fellowship. Can't the prophet inquire on this point? Or maybe he has and we just don't like the answer. Still, I don't think I've heard anyone say "this is a vexing issue that we have diligently inquired of the Lord on and the answer is....."
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The Bible tells us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go. -Galileo Last edited by UtahDan; 07-05-2008 at 02:00 PM. |
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07-05-2008, 02:33 PM | #57 |
Demiurge
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 36,365
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Gay siblings are going to heaven. This is taught, indirectly, by the general authorities.
They have said that children born in the covenant will eventually be saved. I think perhaps they are averse to labeling people as "gay", instead they say "those that struggle with SSA". Because that makes it sound like it is not an immutable characteristic, but rather something like someone who is struggling with porn. It can be overcome, they seem to say. When they are insensitive to gays, I think it is because most of the time, it doesn't even occur to them that it might be an issue. At least, that's my hopeful thought. |
07-05-2008, 04:28 PM | #58 |
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I'd like to see leaders and members alike take this issue to the Lord in the spirit of A of F #9.
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"Do not despise the words of prophets, but test everything; hold fast to what is good; " 1 Thess. 5:21 (NRSV) We all trust our own unorthodoxies. |
07-05-2008, 05:05 PM | #59 | |
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The part that bothers me is how long it's taken for us to admit that there is a genetic basis to homosexuality, how long we've called them perverts, how we claim that masturbation can lead to homosexuality, etc. These statements are just plain ignorant, and while we are not alone among churches in these areas, we certainly seem among the most backward (or have until the last ten years or so). |
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07-05-2008, 07:04 PM | #60 | |
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After having grown up with a gay brother I am baffled when I hear or read statements from people that say they believe that they chose to be attracted to men/not attracted to women. Thats laughable at best. As to whether they remain celibate is a choice.
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