My boy is 2 1/2 and doesn't talk.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Despite the protestations of everyone here, nobody seems to be a specialist in the area.

SU is claiming expertise now because he has lots of nieces and nephews and because he hangs around school zones with binocs.

Here is a question for anyone (I don't know the answer).....what is the rate of occurrence for austism and ASD in children? If it is 1 in every 100, that is a really low probability. If it is 1 in 1000, that is even less. And if so, then it is fair to say that generally, paranoia is unfounded. The chances that your kid has any ASD is extremely remote.

Again, it is not to say that your child should not be diagnosed or tested. But I agree that milestone paranoia is rampant in our generation.

The thing that is skewing this discussion here is that there are 5 or 6 of us with kids in speech therapy (this includes me) or other developmental delays.

Most people here also have advanced degrees. That doesn't make it the norm.

Oh brother. Nobody is providing a diagnosis. We are simply urging that he take his son to a specialist sooner rather than later.

[TripletDaddy]

if that is the case, then we are all saying the same thing

[CardiacCoug]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I completely disagree with your lack of urgency. Our son had a host of issues that were either missed or misdiagnosed by two pediatricians and one eye doctor. One of his issues was that his eyes weren't lining up correctly. It was a bit subtle, but it was definitely there. We asked the pediatricians AND our our eye doctor about it and all said not to worry about it. When we finally got him in to specialist dealing with developmental delays, he told us to get our son to a pediatric ophthalmologist immediately. He ended up having two eye surgeries. The pediatric ophthalmologist told us that if we had waited another six months to a year, he most likely would have suffered permanent loss of sight in one eye. Which is exactly what happened to two of our neighbors.

The point is, kids with developmental delays often have a package of issues. There is no reason to delay a diagnosis.

Uhhh... He didn't say his kid's eyes didn't line up, did he? That's kind of like not being able to hear, which I agree is something you should take care of as soon as possible.

[CardiacCoug]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Cardiac,

Have you spent much time around small children? You don't seem like you have. I've spent my whole life around countless ones. I have five children and dozens of nieces and nephews. My youngest are 7, 4 and two and a half. I visit their pre-schools and schools constantly. I'm the oldest of seven children.

In my experience by two and a half a normal child is speaking in sentences, often somewhat complex ones, all the time repeating phrases they hear, and enunciating fairly well. They jabber constantly, in real English. This is what is NORMAL. If by two and a half a child is not even saying yes and no properly and nothing else, doctors and parents are being irresponsible if they don't have the child thoroughly checked out. I'd also be skeptical if some sort of therapy weren't recommended.

Contrary to some suggestion here, there's more at stake here than utlimately learning to speak. These ages are irreplacable in a child's development arc.

I have four kids -- 8, 6, 3, and 1. They are all "normal" and were talking well at age two and a half, especially my two girls. But "normal" can be defined as anybody between the 5th and 95th percentile (or 1st and 99th percentile). Normal in a medical sense doesn't mean "average." A lot of kids that start talking very late end up having normal IQ and normal speech as older kids and adults.

I'm not aware of any randomized, controlled clinical trials (in other words scientific evidence) to show that kids with autistic spectrum disorders or similar major neurological issues do any better if they are diagnosed and receive therapy at an early age (say age 2 versus age 6).

If you see a kid who was labeled with autism who makes a lot of improvement it was probably going to happen with or without a formal diagnosis and therapy -- probably the diagnosis was just wrong. Kids with autism have never been randomized to formal speech therapy or no formal speech therapy to see which group learns to speak better, for example. My guess is that the kids would turn out the same way with or without it. That's just my gut feeling and there is no scientific evidence that disproves it -- autistic spectrum disorders are fundamental problems with the brain that can't be fixed with a little bit of extra educational effort from parents and therapists.

Now things like surgeries to correct eye problems or hearing aids for kids who can't hear, etc. are a totally different issue. Those things should be done as soon as possible because they can be corrected.

[FarrahWaters]

We are all speaking from our own experiences here. You, who have children with no delays, have a different point of view from the parents here who do have such children. I don't have ironclad proof that early intervention therapy will help, but how can I as a parent ignore any kind of opportunity to help my child thrive and grow in this world?

[CardiacCoug]

Originally Posted by FarrahWaters

We are all speaking from our own experiences here. You, who have children with no delays, have a different point of view from the parents here who do have such children. I don't have ironclad proof that early intervention therapy will help, but how can I as a parent ignore any kind of opportunity to help my child thrive and grow in this world?

Of course all parents want to do everything they can for their kids -- I just think there can be a lot of unnecessary angst, guilt, expense, and wasted time by parents worried about their kids reaching milestones at exactly the average time. If kids have developmental delay I think it's great to put them in educational and therapeutic programs to help them. But I don't think parents should feel like these programs are critical or will make huge differences for their kids, because I'm not convinced that is the case.

I can only speak from my own experience which you correctly point out is not that of a parent with a developmentally delayed child. Maybe I can become better educated on this topic.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by CardiacCoug

Uhhh... He didn't say his kid's eyes didn't line up, did he? That's kind of like not being able to hear, which I agree is something you should take care of as soon as possible.

Sure. But with our son, we took him to the specialist because of overall learning disability, not for his eyes. We learned that he most likely experienced some stress in the womb. His eye problems (which seemed subtle at the time) were one of many issues that we discovered once we got him to the proper specialists. Had we not taken him to the specialist for his learning disability, we would not have learned about his other issues. That is my point.

This diagnosis also launched a long and eventful learning process for us as parents as we immersed ourselves in books, online research, and consultation with experts. I hope and pray that there is nothing wrong with Levin's boy. But if there is, better to figure it out now than later.

[Runner Coug]

I'm late to this thread (been at Scout Camp), and I haven't read the whole thing, but we had a boy who wasn't talking at 2 1/2. We even had someone teach him some basic sign language so we knew what he wanted.

5 1/2 years later, he won't stop talking.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by CardiacCoug

I have four kids -- 8, 6, 3, and 1. They are all "normal" and were talking well at age two and a half, especially my two girls. But "normal" can be defined as anybody between the 5th and 95th percentile (or 1st and 99th percentile). Normal in a medical sense doesn't mean "average." A lot of kids that start talking very late end up having normal IQ and normal speech as older kids and adults.

I'm not aware of any randomized, controlled clinical trials (in other words scientific evidence) to show that kids with autistic spectrum disorders or similar major neurological issues do any better if they are diagnosed and receive therapy at an early age (say age 2 versus age 6).

If you see a kid who was labeled with autism who makes a lot of improvement it was probably going to happen with or without a formal diagnosis and therapy -- probably the diagnosis was just wrong. Kids with autism have never been randomized to formal speech therapy or no formal speech therapy to see which group learns to speak better, for example. My guess is that the kids would turn out the same way with or without it. That's just my gut feeling and there is no scientific evidence that disproves it -- autistic spectrum disorders are fundamental problems with the brain that can't be fixed with a little bit of extra educational effort from parents and therapists.

Now things like surgeries to correct eye problems or hearing aids for kids who can't hear, etc. are a totally different issue. Those things should be done as soon as possible because they can be corrected.

So your advice is Levin should do nothing. I'm impressed you've issued your diagnosis already. Did they teach you in medical school how to do that over the the Internet sight unseen? Who's talking about autism other than you and Triplet? Do you think a two and a half year old who can't hardly say yes or no is in theh fifth percentile? The first? The 49th? Cite? Do you know? How do you know this doesn't involve a physiological issue like hearing?

You say you "guess" intervention at 2 is no different than 6. Why are you "guessing" about something so grave? Do you normally do that? I don't care what your "gut feeling" is. Is a gut feeling mainstream? I think they should have real doctors look at the boy in real life.

The irony of your avatar is rich.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Runner Coug

I'm late to this thread (been at Scout Camp), and I haven't read the whole thing, but we had a boy who wasn't talking at 2 1/2. We even had someone teach him some basic sign language so we knew what he wanted.

5 1/2 years later, he won't stop talking.

So, you have a diagnosis too?