Some Hinckley sermons were more effective than others.

[fusnik11]

The church simply needs to do 3 things if it wants to get serious about helping it's members live fiscally frugal lives:

a. Encourage women to work, especially those with strong work place skills. Don't put the emphasis on a male making the money, put it on the strongest partner.

b. Discourage people from having babies before they can afford having babies.

c. Teach basic accountancy skills during the church block. Living outside your means is a huge problem nationally, help reduce the problem in the church by teaching financing, budgeting, and basic investing skills (IRA's, 401k's Emergency Savings) monthly.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Venkman

Successful lawyer or businessman seems to be the resume of most newly called American GA's. No, I don't have hard data to back that up, and I doubt it's in the church almanac.

My intent is not to bash wealth, because I don't have a problem with it, and I don't care that much who they call (although I think there are alot of Idaho farmers of modest means who'd do a bang up job). I'm just saying, it's hard to decry materialism when alot of the church leadership isn't exactly living a modest lifestyle.

GBH was definitely not guilty of this, but others are. MP's are notorious for this. I've had (and have talked to many others who had) some rich, hard-nosed businessman type (a-hole) MP. These men can make a definite impression on young missionaries and solidify the wealth = sign of a good mormon ideal that some folks have.

When they did the bio on President Monson I was impressed with all the things he had accomplished. One of the things they mentioned several times was what a successful business man he was. I had never thought of him as a sucessful businessman.

Why would they mention that in a biography if it wasn't important. In the bio they did on TV on Pres. Hinckley they talked about what a fine business man he was.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

The church simply needs to do 3 things if it wants to get serious about helping it's members live fiscally frugal lives:

a. Encourage women to work, especially those with strong work place skills. Don't put the emphasis on a male making the money, put it on the strongest partner.

b. Discourage people from having babies before they can afford having babies.

c. Teach basic accountancy skills during the church block. Living outside your means is a huge problem nationally, help reduce the problem in the church by teaching financing, budgeting, and basic investing skills (IRA's, 401k's Emergency Savings) monthly.

This is why I firmly believe if it weren't for social issues and the conservative nature of them, LDS folks would be liberals. There is so much looking down on the rich. So much real naiveness when it comes to the economy.

People in the state cry and moan about the money Utah spends per kid on education. Do the math. One of the largest owners of Real Estate in the state pays no tax. They encourage their women not to work and to have as many kids as possible as quick as possible. Who is going to pay for all these idealistic themes.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by BYU71

This is why I firmly believe if it weren't for social issues and the conservative nature of them, LDS folks would be liberals. There is so much looking down on the rich. So much real naiveness when it comes to the economy.

People in the state cry and moan about the money Utah spends per kid on education. Do the math. One of the largest owners of Real Estate in the state pays no tax. They encourage their women not to work and to have as many kids as possible as quick as possible. Who is going to pay for all these idealistic themes.

actually the church has many enterprises in Utah where they choose voluntarily to pay tax, even when they don't have to. Per an accountant in my ward.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

actually the church has many enterprises in Utah where they choose voluntarily to pay tax, even when they don't have to. Per an accountant in my ward.

Sometimes taxes are paid to avoid an investigation into an area that could open pandora's box. What your accountant said could be true, but I highly doubt it.

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Sometimes taxes are paid to avoid an investigation into an area that could open pandora's box. What your accountant said could be true, but I highly doubt it.

I would assume Zions Securities Corporation is one of these entities.

But I agree with your general sentiment.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

I would assume Zions Securities Corporation is one of these entities.

But I agree with your general sentiment.

Church own businesses have to pay taxes. That isn't one of those area's where they don't have to, but do. I would guess they error on the side of caution in any grey areas.

[RedHeadGal]

this isn't in keeping with the financial tack this thread has taken, but people certainly liked GBH's counsel about women's earrings. I didn't even hear that in the first instance, but I think that gets quoted back in one form or another in my church life 2-3 times per year. And I think it's one of the most trivial bits of counsel I've ever heard.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Venkman

Successful lawyer or businessman seems to be the resume of most newly called American GA's. No, I don't have hard data to back that up, and I doubt it's in the church almanac.

My intent is not to bash wealth, because I don't have a problem with it, and I don't care that much who they call (although I think there are alot of Idaho farmers of modest means who'd do a bang up job). I'm just saying, it's hard to decry materialism when alot of the church leadership isn't exactly living a modest lifestyle.

GBH was definitely not guilty of this, but others are. MP's are notorious for this. I've had (and have talked to many others who had) some rich, hard-nosed businessman type (a-hole) MP. These men can make a definite impression on young missionaries and solidify the wealth = sign of a good mormon ideal that some folks have.

Not disagreeing with you that some/many in general church leadership might be wealthy, but you've got a distance to go to prove that they are also materialistic.

And I'm curious how you knew how materialistic your mission president was. Did he bring his 60" Plasma to zone conference or something? Wear Armani suits? And does being a "hard nosed" businessman automatically make you materialistic (to say nothing of making you an "a-hole")?

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

The church simply needs to do 3 things if it wants to get serious about helping it's members live fiscally frugal lives:

a. Encourage women to work, especially those with strong work place skills.

The sex of the earners aside, it is my observation that two incomes really don't help as much as they could/should. I know a few families who have made this work, budgeting as if they had one income and making the second income "extra" money. But far more often than not, it seems to put a family into a lifestyle that ends up requiring both of those incomes. Complicating matters, if there are children at home who are not yet of school age then an earner of lower wages ends up basically working to pay for daycare +4 bucks an hour. This would not be true with 2 professionals working, but would be true in any situation where lower wages are earned by the person bringing in the second income. I guess I just can't agree with you that 2 incomes will help members to live "fiscally frugal lives."