Black LDS Official on Priesthood Ban

[MikeWaters]

It will be very interesting for Tex to fully explain his theory that instead of imperfect men, we have an imperfect God. Who institutes a racist theory and then has his prophets lie about the reasons to the people.

That's basically what it has come down to. There is no way around it.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Adam

I might have misspoken--I do understand and believe that DOM prayed. But he was a racist and not likely to get an answer--

What a bunch of crap. Are you really hoping for merciful final judgment when you make such condemning assesments of prophets of God (DOM racist, HBL killed by God for disobedience, etc.)?

What a pompous SOB.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

What a bunch of crap. Are you really hoping for merciful final judgment when you make such condemning assesments of prophets of God (DOM racist, HBL killed by God for disobedience, etc.)?

What a pompous SOB.

You obviously have a different conception of God (and men) than Adam.

Your God will judge Adam harshly.

Adam's God will not.

I would recommend that you do as your particular God sees fit. I will do the same.

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by Tex

And if they sought it so diligently, why would God not be willing to grant it? If the ban was only mere policy, capable of being changed sans Godly consultation, why were the men who asked rebuffed?

The logical answer is that they weren't rebuffed, that, just as was the case with polygamy, God had no hand in either the implementation or the elimination of the practice. Which isn't to say they necessarily lied about receiving revelation. It's entirely possible that prophets and apostles sincerely went to God in prayer and mistakenly felt God was green-lighting their misguided policies. Let's face it, a person can receive any answer to any prayer offered if they want that answer bad enough.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Your God will judge Adam harshly.

Adam's God will not.

You mean like Adam's impassioned pleas on behalf of the Tonga brothers?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Adam

Thank you for the work, it is good to see the facts. I thought the architect story was unique--thank you for reminding me of the reported comment to the secretaries.

The architect story differs from the others (except the secretaries story) in that it is the only recorded instance of God telling a Prophet to continue the ban. All the other instances you talk about refer to DOM praying about it without reference to an answer. I might have misspoken--I do understand and believe that DOM prayed. But he was a racist and not likely to get an answer--reference my previously cited quote from SWK about not getting revelations unless we want them.

You're really reaching now. I see that when backed into a corner with facts, your assertions just get wilder.

Originally Posted by Adam

So we have two instances where we are told DOM received an answer to his prayer and the answer was a clear and direct "No, don't give blacks the priesthood". That detailed instance is the architect story. I had forgotten the comment to some secretaries. I still don't believe it is true that God was at the helm of that policy.

Then you are guilty of the same stubborn intransigence of which you accuse them. Facts apparently don't matter.

Originally Posted by non sequitur

The logical answer is that they weren't rebuffed, that, just as was the case with polygamy, God had no hand in either the implementation or the elimination of the practice. Which isn't to say they necessarily lied about receiving revelation. It's entirely possible that prophets and apostles sincerely went to God in prayer and mistakenly felt God was green-lighting their misguided policies. Let's face it, a person can receive any answer to any prayer offered if they want that answer bad enough.

I happen to believe prophets have an evolved ability to discern answers from God. And since you really don't believe in it anyway, why are you opining on how it works?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

You mean like Adam's impassioned pleas on behalf of the Tonga brothers?

He borrowed your God for a day.

[SoCalCoug]

Tex - you forgot to highlight all the parts in your quotes that refer to the denial of the priesthood to blacks as "policy" and "practice" - I thought you were saying it was doctrine rather than simply policy or practice. Your position certainly implies that it was doctrine.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Adam

The white flag has gone up, the battle is over.

Like when you retreated into your "lying for the Lord/too racist to get an answer" duplex.

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug

Tex - you forgot to highlight all the parts in your quotes that refer to the denial of the priesthood to blacks as "policy" and "practice" - I thought you were saying it was doctrine rather than simply policy or practice. Your position certainly implies that it was doctrine.

It was certainly policy. I don't know that it was doctrine. Certainly some leaders taught it like doctrine, although I don't think there's evidence to suggest that it was the "official" position of the church.

But on the other hand, I don't think doctrine is as immovable as it seems some of the leaders did in the DOM book. The laws of God are complex, and he supercedes them as he sees fit. I'm not sure why that's a big deal.