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creekster · 12-01-2006, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creekster

Can I step away from the SU bash for a moment and ask a quesrion about the original article? I saw this when it came out and found it fascinating so I read a couple of differnet articles about it and found that much of the internal workings of the device are inferred from the markings that have been read on the outside. In other words, becasue there is a label that refers to planetary movement the investigators inferred, in the absence of direct evidence from x-rays, etc., that there was a mechanism that would allow such a control to work. One article said 37 internal wheels are inferred.

Does anyone have any insight as to how accurate such inferences are likely to be? I used to build model planes when I was a kid and would fabricate very realistic looking instrument panels for the cockpit of the planes. COuld one reasonably infer that I must have also built the engine that was suggested by those instrument labels? I am a feeble minded liberal arts type, so I am hoping some of you more scientific types will shed some light on this process of inference taking place here.

Not to be too whiny (proabbly too late for that) but does anyone have any thoughts on this question, which is sincere?

Archaea · 12-01-2006, 07:32 PM

That's a tough question, which an engineer would be better at analyzing. Jeff Lebowski could assist us here, but I imagine he would state there is too little information available.

creekster · 12-01-2006, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

That's a tough question, which an engineer would be better at analyzing. Jeff Lebowski could assist us here, but I imagine he would state there is too little information available.

Probably true. Too little info.

MikeWaters · 12-01-2006, 07:50 PM

If you would like a copy of the scientific article (not CNN fluff) that details this, PM me with your email address.

MikeWaters · 12-01-2006, 08:41 PM

I read the article. It's amazing, the intricacy of construction along with the astronomical knowledge.

Imagine constructing this thing one gear at a time. No computer models, no fancy metal machines.

Amazing.

Articles says that this sort of knowledge was lost to the Romans. I wonder how much else the Romans destroyed. And what the Greeks may have destroyed before the Romans.

What Atlantis was. We can only imagine.

All-American · 12-01-2006, 09:13 PM

I didn't have time to do much more than leave a comment before, but I'd like to try to address SeattleUte's main point now.

It was posited as "laughable" that Abraham, or anyone like him, would presume to teach principles of astronomy and science to the Egyptians. He is right, in one sense-- nearly all Egyptians would have agreed that no other nation or nationality could possibly contribute to Egypt's greatness, which was already far above and beyond the rest of the world (or so they thought).

There is, however, at least one era in Egyptian history wherein this idea would not have been so laughable, and it just so happens to be around Abraham's day. Toward the end of the Middle Kingdom era, just before the second intermediate period, power shifted to a group of people known as Hyksos, who are actually SEMITIC. This power struggle doesn't seem to have been a military conquest so much as a usurpation. It was during the reign of the Hyksos that many biblical scholars believe Joseph's story took place.

In other words: within a few generations of the time biblical scholars believe to have been Abraham's, a semitic nation (who, by race, would have been very much "like Abraham") were not only in a position of authority, but THE position of authority. Certainly, Egyptians of the second intermediate period would not have found the proposition that a Semite like Abraham could be put in an authoritative position out of the ordinary.

SeattleUte · 12-01-2006, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All-American

I didn't have time to do much more than leave a comment before, but I'd like to try to address SeattleUte's main point now.

It was posited as "laughable" that Abraham, or anyone like him, would presume to teach principles of astronomy and science to the Egyptians. He is right, in one sense-- nearly all Egyptians would have agreed that no other nation or nationality could possibly contribute to Egypt's greatness, which was already far above and beyond the rest of the world (or so they thought).

There is, however, at least one era in Egyptian history wherein this idea would not have been so laughable, and it just so happens to be around Abraham's day. Toward the end of the Middle Kingdom era, just before the second intermediate period, power shifted to a group of people known as Hyksos, who are actually SEMITIC. This power struggle doesn't seem to have been a military conquest so much as a usurpation. It was during the reign of the Hyksos that many biblical scholars believe Joseph's story took place.

In other words: within a few generations of the time biblical scholars believe to have been Abraham's, a semitic nation (who, by race, would have been very much "like Abraham") were not only in a position of authority, but THE position of authority. Certainly, Egyptians of the second intermediate period would not have found the proposition that a Semite like Abraham could be put in an authoritative position out of the ordinary.

This sounds a bit FARMSish to me. Still doesn't address the pont of where would Abraham or someone like him have learned learned astronomy if not from more advanced Near Eastern cultures.

SeattleUte · 12-01-2006, 11:47 PM

Here's a great essay by a genius that sums up the constructive tension between "atypical of the nineteenth century.)

http://www.authorama.com/culture-and-anarchy-6.html

All-American · 12-02-2006, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

This sounds a bit FARMSish to me. Still doesn't address the pont of where would Abraham or someone like him have learned learned astronomy if not from more advanced Near Eastern cultures.

Has nothing to do with FARMS. I have not read a single article by FARMS that suggests anything like unto it. Ian Shaw's Oxford History of Ancient Egypt notes that the names of Hyksos names derive from west semitic languages, and points out Syrian, Hittite, and other Asiatic influences in their culture. Though their lifestyle was "heavily adulturated" by Egyptian influence, Shaw shows their origination from the Syrio-Palestinean region with no help whatsoever from our good friends from Provo.

And what's wrong with the thought that Abraham or someone like him could have learned astronomy from more advanced Near Eastern cultures?

Archaea · 12-02-2006, 12:31 AM

GV just kissed this thread to death.

12-01-2006, 07:32 PM	#52
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	That's a tough question, which an engineer would be better at analyzing. Jeff Lebowski could assist us here, but I imagine he would state there is too little information available. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

12-01-2006, 09:13 PM	#56
All-American Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,420	I didn't have time to do much more than leave a comment before, but I'd like to try to address SeattleUte's main point now. It was posited as "laughable" that Abraham, or anyone like him, would presume to teach principles of astronomy and science to the Egyptians. He is right, in one sense-- nearly all Egyptians would have agreed that no other nation or nationality could possibly contribute to Egypt's greatness, which was already far above and beyond the rest of the world (or so they thought). There is, however, at least one era in Egyptian history wherein this idea would not have been so laughable, and it just so happens to be around Abraham's day. Toward the end of the Middle Kingdom era, just before the second intermediate period, power shifted to a group of people known as Hyksos, who are actually SEMITIC. This power struggle doesn't seem to have been a military conquest so much as a usurpation. It was during the reign of the Hyksos that many biblical scholars believe Joseph's story took place. In other words: within a few generations of the time biblical scholars believe to have been Abraham's, a semitic nation (who, by race, would have been very much "like Abraham") were not only in a position of authority, but THE position of authority. Certainly, Egyptians of the second intermediate period would not have found the proposition that a Semite like Abraham could be put in an authoritative position out of the ordinary. __________________ εν αρχη ην ο λογος

12-01-2006, 11:47 PM	#58
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	Here's a great essay by a genius that sums up the constructive tension between "atypical of the nineteenth century.) http://www.authorama.com/culture-and-anarchy-6.html __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster

12-02-2006, 12:31 AM	#60
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	GV just kissed this thread to death. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

12-01-2006, 07:50 PM	#54
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	If you would like a copy of the scientific article (not CNN fluff) that details this, PM me with your email address.

12-01-2006, 08:41 PM	#55
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I read the article. It's amazing, the intricacy of construction along with the astronomical knowledge. Imagine constructing this thing one gear at a time. No computer models, no fancy metal machines. Amazing. Articles says that this sort of knowledge was lost to the Romans. I wonder how much else the Romans destroyed. And what the Greeks may have destroyed before the Romans. What Atlantis was. We can only imagine.