A question for the Orthodox:

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

You're simply taking things too literally. If you strain as hard as you do when you read President Monson's words, you will realize I'm not really trying to insult you at all. Step out of your binary world.

I win.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I win.

Define "win". That's a very binary term. Is the win absolute? When you say "win" do you mean "lose", kind of like back in the 80s when "bad" was "good"?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Define "win". That's a very binary term. Is the win absolute? When you say "win" do you mean "lose", kind of like back in the 80s when "bad" was "good"?

Victory is complete now, thank you Indy.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Victory is complete now, thank you Indy.

I testify that you are the man I turn to when I look for complete obfuscation of the obvious.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I testify that you are the man I turn to when I look for complete obfuscation of the obvious.

you're too much.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Now, now Tex.

It means I don't take his words to mean what you tell me they should mean, because that's what they mean to you. You are unwilling to translate from Mormonspeak into colloquial speech.

Speaking Mormonspeak is not deception, it's a cultural way of speaking. Other faith communities use similar abbreviations. It's you who's calling it deception, when I believe I know what he's saying in more contemporary, empirical terms.

There is nothing cultural about saying, "This is the man God wants." It's about as clear as saying the sky is blue.

The gospel has lots of room for interpretation on a great many things, but we ought not to be so dismissive or cavalier about inserting interpretations in places where it is not necessary. I say this, knowing you are the guy who thinks most of the Bible is a collection of fictional allegories.

[Tex]

Parenthetically, there is one very significant aspect missing in these "gosh I wish it wasn't another white guy" debates about apostles.

When the prophet selects a new apostles, he is very possibly selecting a future president of the church. It's not just about whether a man is a good administrator, someone with lots of church experience, or a person with a fantastic grasp of the scriptures. It has to be a man who could potentially lead the entire church and speak for God.

That goes way beyond giving a nod to a minority community within the church, which is the primary reason most of you want it.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Tex

Except no one is suggesting that, especially me.



A proposition that again, no one is suggesting, not the least of which is Neil Andersen himself.

Which then begs the question: why no minorities ever called to the 12? Seriously? If you accept, as I do, that many COULD be called and would be perfectly acceptable to the Lord, then why have they not been called? There aren't many good responses, which I am sure is why you haven't tried to respond. Those that seem available are: 1) the prophet isn't associating with enough minorities to feel comfortable in naming one of them to the 12; 2) the prophet does associate sufficiently with minorities, but feels uncomfortable in naming any of them to the 12 despite that association (suggesting racism, on some level).

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Stop the freaking charade. It's not a question of interpretation, it's simply your lazy-ass way of intellectualizing away explicit comments that don't neatly fit into your own spiritual world-view.

If you don't agree with it, then it's time to render prophetic statements or scriptural stories as mere symbols or ideas and stories borrowed from Mesopotamian myths borne of Jungian psychological archetypes or simply choose to ignore the absolute language used and claim that the explicit is really the implicit of something which is somehow contridictory of the explicit.

Take a stance and stick with it and stop being so wishy-washy. Can you even pick out your own clothes in the morning?

Cussing in a post about the importance of listening to and obeying the prophet? You are one odd dude.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Cussing in a post about the importance of listening to and obeying the prophet? You are one odd dude.

I'll forward that note on to J. Golden.