Now that the LDS Church has raised the

[scottie]

Originally Posted by woot

I was an AP the last 6 months of my mission, so I was able to get a pretty good idea of the overall righteousness of the mission, and it wasn't pretty.

I ended up playing cops & robbers in the middle of the night several times, looking for missionaries who had taken off with the car, scouring strip joint parking lots, etc. It's crazy how many lap dances were going on and how many naked district meetings there were. Ok that last one only happened once. The same district all went and got tattoos together, and evidently one of their little make-out/who knows what else parties took place in the baptismal font of the local chapel.

We also had a couple of bi-polar sisters almost kill their companions.

Mostly, it wasn't as exciting as all that and the biggest problems were missionaries lying around their apartment all day or just not getting along with their companions.

Still, the impression I left with was that lousy missionaries are the norm. Half way through my mission they had to restructure the leadership, from zone-leader companionships to only 1 zone leader per zone, because there just weren't nearly enough decent missionaries to fill that many ZL spots. It also made it convenient to put the biggest idiots with the zone leaders so they could be babysat. Horrible waste of good missionaries, but when they say missions are more about the missionaries than the converts, they aren't lyin'.

Did you serve before or after the "bar" was raised? Your experience reminds of something I've wondered about - what have the net gains been from raising the bar? (I have no doubt that has been discussed here already). Surely the brethren have tried to analyse that and I'd be interested to see how quantifiable their data is.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by tooblue

You're placing the blame for a failed marriage on their daughter going home early from a mission? It's not about judgment. Having been married for many years, I can say with certainty there were serious problems in the marriage in the first place.

I can't judge the situation, but generally I find the episode may have the proverbial straw, not the main cause or causes.

Marriages are tougher, usually, than a bunch of people being mean to the couple.

[Mrs. Funk]

Originally Posted by scottie

Did you serve before or after the "bar" was raised? Your experience reminds of something I've wondered about - what have the net gains been from raising the bar? (I have no doubt that has been discussed here already). Surely the brethren have tried to analyse that and I'd be interested to see how quantifiable their data is.

I've wondered this, too. This was the original subject of the thread. So, are more people getting "caught" before they leave? Are more people getting "caught" in the MTC? In the mission field? How many slip through the cracks still? Or has it been more effective than past standards?

I honestly don't have answers. I'm just curious as well.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by scottie

Did you serve before or after the "bar" was raised? Your experience reminds of something I've wondered about - what have the net gains been from raising the bar? (I have no doubt that has been discussed here already). Surely the brethren have tried to analyse that and I'd be interested to see how quantifiable their data is.

Baptisms are down.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Funk

I've wondered this, too. This was the original subject of the thread. So, are more people getting "caught" before they leave? Are more people getting "caught" in the MTC? In the mission field? How many slip through the cracks still? Or has it been more effective than past standards?

I honestly don't have answers. I'm just curious as well.

The problem is simple and straightforward, we don't have meaningful evidence, and unless we're in Church leadership or conduct studies for the Church as the Sociology Department at BYU, we are merely speculating based on anecdotal evidence.

I don't even know how it is supposed to be administered. Everything discussed here is merely about perception.

[Mrs. Funk]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Baptisms are down.

True... how have the populations of missionaries been affected by raising the bar? Could that possible contribute to a decrease in baptisms?

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Funk

True... how have the populations of missionaries been affected by raising the bar? Could that possible contribute to a decrease in baptisms?

Yes missionary numbers are down and therefore baptisms. I think the brethren look at this as a failed experiment and are now looking for ways to lower the bar.

[Mrs. Funk]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Yes missionary numbers are down and therefore baptisms. I think the brethren look at this as a failed experiment and are now looking for ways to lower the bar.

A failed experiment in that the brethren intended to improve the quality of missionary and thereby increase the numbers of baptism? Instead, it's decreased the number of missionaries and baptisms are down?

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by Requiem

My experience is that alot more missionaries are being sent home early, sometimes for questionable reasons and the negative consequences to the missionary and his/her family are severe and lifelong. For good reason, I have strong feelings on this topic.

Let me give you a recent (April, 2007) example. I have a niece who was serving as a missionary in Guatemala. After serving for six months, she wanted to "clear the slate" and called her MP on the phone to schedule an interview during his upcoming visit for a zone conference. He advised her to discuss the problem on the phone. She confessed a single incidence of petting not disclosed to her Bishop or SP. Thirty minutes after the phone call, the MP called her back and said she was being sent home. No personal visit, no attempt to work with her in the field. She was an outstanding missionary and had recently baptized a family with six children.

After returning home in disgrace, she and her family were isolated and shunned by her ward. Her punishment at home was three months of informal probation. No counseling, no arms of fellowship, nothing. Yes, she made a mistake, but the punishment did not fit the crime.

Here is the what this mean spirited MP hath wrought: my niece is now attending UC Northridge and is ambivalent towards the Church. Her testimony of the gospel is strong, but she will forever be labeled as a failed missionary. Her parents are not so lucky. They are now separated and in the process of divorcing after a 42 year marriage and seven children. Plain and simple, they could not withstand the isolation and judgements that followed their daughter being sent home. Some may judge that their marriage did not have a strong foundation and the daughter being sent home was merely a tipping point. I think otherwise.

Raising the bar without the application of wisdom and forgiveness is a double edged sword. There was not a sin here worthy of either disfellowshipment or excommunication. Another example of the consequences of the misapplication of Church discipline. Unrighteous dominion is pure evil.

Why is that whiny people get all of these types of experiences? I never have ever encountered anyone to be so capricious and unforgiving. To be blunt Requiem I don't buy it. I just don't. I think there is more to it than you are aware and I am prone to give a MP a bit more respect.

I think the raising of the bar is overblown and I specifically recall an apostle, I think Elder Ballard, speak on the subject at conference and basically tell the Bishops and Stake Presidents that perhaps they were too gregarious in their enforcement. I took it to mean we need more warm bodies in our sales force.

I like the raising of the bar focus with respect to parents teaching their kids and preparing them for missionary service. It is really no different than any other church espoused parental obligation, but it is invigorating to give it a catchy phrase.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by woot

I was an AP the last 6 months of my mission, so I was able to get a pretty good idea of the overall righteousness of the mission, and it wasn't pretty.

I knew you were a dick! You no longer complete me.