Is BYU relegated to no higher than 3rd place in the Pac-10

[woot]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Degrees from WSU, ASU, AZ, Oregon, OSU....what do those get you?

A degree in biological anthropology from ASU is at least as good as one from Harvard. In cultural anthropology, AZ is top 5ish. I don't know as much about the other schools. I will agree that they aren't the all-around awesome schools like Harvard, Stanford, Duke, Michigan, Berkeley, etc., but not all schools can really do that, so they focus on certain areas. They at least try. I do concede that research isn't the whole thing, and that the greater academic environment is the bigger issue. Not only does BYU generally not care about research, but they're also not big on academic freedom and whatnot. Call it discrimination if you want, because it probably is, but academics don't think too highly of limited inquiry due to religious roadblocks.

[YOhio]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

My question, again..

The P10 and the B10 are forced to expand to 12 teams and a CCG to remain in the BCS.

Who does the PAC go after?

Only possible, however remote, choices:
Hawaii
Fresno State
UNLV
Nevada
Boise State
BYU
Utah
SDSU

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

No argument here, but doesnt answer my question.

I will concede your point for a second.

My question, again..

The P10 and the B10 are forced to expand to 12 teams and a CCG to remain in the BCS.

Who does the PAC go after?

I think if they want to go to 12 they will take Utah unless they can get something more attractive. They will try to get Colorado and Texas but probably fail at least with Texas. I think they would take New Mexico, Air Force, or Hawaii before they took BYU. I don't think they'd take BYU under any circumstances for the reasons I've stated. I was curious about Hawaii and did a little research in Wikipedia. I was surprised to see "the University of Hawaii system" has 50,000 students and a $3 billion endowment.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by YOhio

Only possible, however remote, choices:
Fresno State
UNLV
Nevada
Boise State
BYU
Utah
SDSU

Okay.

Let's apply SU's argument here.

Of the schools you mentioned, which are the grand dame research institutions that the Pac chancellors so keenly crave?

Also, which 2 entrants provide the natural geographic rivalry that exists amongst the other 10 members?

Remember, they HAVE to expand to 12 teams or else no BCS.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by YOhio

Only possible, however remote, choices:
Hawaii
Fresno State
UNLV
Nevada
Boise State
BYU
Utah
SDSU

No way to all of these except maybe Utah and maybe mabye Hawaii or Nevada. SDSU are you kidding? The Cal schools turn up their noses at the "State" schools. Again, they are hyper elitist.

[YOhio]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

No way to all of these except maybe Utah and maybe mabye Hawaii or Nevada. SDSU are you kidding? The Cal schools turn up their noses at the "State" schools. Again, they are hyper elitist.

I understand what you're saying, but SDSU has to be in the conversation if we're discussing hypothetical PAC10 expansion. I think Boise State would get preference over Nevada. All biases aside, BYU and Utah bring the most to the table. By far.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I think if they want to go to 12 they will take Utah unless they can get something more attractive. They will try to get Colorado and Texas but probably fail at least with Texas. I think they would take New Mexico, Air Force, or Hawaii before they took BYU. I don't think they'd take BYU under any circumstances for the reasons I've stated. I was curious about Hawaii and did a little research in Wikipedia. I was surprised to see "the University of Hawaii system" has 50,000 students and a $3 billion endowment.

Walk me through HOW and WHY either Colorado or Texas would just get up and leave the Big 12. Why would they do that? Just because the Pac 10 asked them to? And why would the Big 12 allow itself to sink to 10 teams? The CCG issue jsut shifts from one conference to another. Colorado is going to say, "to hell with all our tradition in the Big 12....our NC......let's go to the Pac 10, just because..."

As for prestige, keep in mind that amongst the BCS conferences, it is the Pac that is always crying about no respect (I would put the Big Least as the least respected, however). If not for SC's dominance, the Pac would have little to hang its hat on compared to its BCS brethren. You are suggesting that if the Pac is forced to expand, it is somehow going to steal away 2 Big 12 schools?

So your answer is that if the Pac is forced to expand, it will add the awesome pairing of Utah and New Mexico. Or Utah and Hawaii. All because "BYU is weird."

Not smarter. Less dumb.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by woot

A degree in biological anthropology from ASU is at least as good as one from Harvard. In cultural anthropology, AZ is top 5ish. I don't know as much about the other schools. I will agree that they aren't the all-around awesome schools like Harvard, Stanford, Duke, Michigan, Berkeley, etc., but not all schools can really do that, so they focus on certain areas. They at least try. I do concede that research isn't the whole thing, and that the greater academic environment is the bigger issue. Not only does BYU generally not care about research, but they're also not big on academic freedom and whatnot. Call it discrimination if you want, because it probably is, but academics don't think too highly of limited inquiry due to religious roadblocks.

I agree that BYU does not promote academic freedom.

I disagree that it really will have much to do with who plays football in their conference.

Like I pointed out, several schools already play in the Pac 10 for certain sports, and they have no academic pedigree whatsover. Cal State Bakersfield! SDSU!

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by YOhio

I understand what you're saying, but SDSU has to be in the conversation if we're discussing hypothetical PAC10 expansion. I think Boise State would get preference over Nevada. All biases aside, BYU and Utah bring the most to the table. By far.

In a hypothetical expansion, BYU and Utah are the ONLY two teams that make sense.

And it is for this reason that I believe that the Pac fights expansion. I don't argue that they don't want us. I agree with SU on that one. But if it came to expansion, they have NO choice but to take us. And the Utes.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

No way to all of these except maybe Utah and maybe mabye Hawaii or Nevada. SDSU are you kidding? The Cal schools turn up their noses at the "State" schools. Again, they are hyper elitist.

CS Bakersfield already plays as a Pac 10 team in certain sports. As does CS Fullerton.