Abraham/Isaac sacrifice

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I am not in Sooner's camp saying that these stories are worthless...

I just think Onan is worthless. I'm OK with lots of other stories. For example, I don't think Job is worthless. I think Job is a pitiful story about how a cruel God tortured a man. Job is like an abused dog that's loyal to his owner. The dog inspires me even though I don't like the owner. It's like being inspired by Schindler's List. Even crappy stories have inspiring moments.

The problem with the Bible is that a literal interpretation of the OT gives you the Westboro Baptist Church. I wish Church leaders would work harder to openly reject literal interpretation of aspects of these stories. We have lots of precedent for that. President Kimball taught that the creation of Eve from Adam's rib was purely figurative. I think JS started us on that path. I wish a prophet would come out and say: "God wouldn't torture a man the way he tortured Job. That was the author's interpretation of these events." If leaders don't come out and say it, then the masses tend toward literal interpretation. Or at a minimum, people are left confused, and many people reject religion altogether because of inconsistencies in scripture.

[Indy Coug]

Should we be any less appalled that God required Joseph Smth, Abinadi, Phillip, Paul, John the Baptist and many, many others seal their testimonies with their own blood than we should be that God tested Abraham's willingness without actually requiring Isaac's blood?

Certainly, there has been ample scholarly discussion about how Isaac, who was likely a healthy, strong young man whose father was frail and elderly, must have also submitted himself to God's will. Is his submissiveness any more disturbing than the others listed above?

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Should we be any less appalled that God required Joseph Smth, Abinadi, Phillip, Paul, John the Baptist and many, many others seal their testimonies with their own blood than we should be that God tested Abraham's willingness without actually requiring Isaac's blood?

I reject the notion that God required anything.

Was Hitler required to seal his testimony of the holocaust with his blood?

People die. People kill each other. It's awful, but that's just part of life. It doesn't mean God required anything.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

I reject the notion that God required anything.

Was Hitler required to seal his testimony of the holocaust with his blood?

People die. People kill each other. It's awful, but that's just part of life. It doesn't mean God required anything.

Godwin's law truly is wonderful.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

I reject the notion that God required anything.

Was Hitler required to seal his testimony of the holocaust with his blood?

People die. People kill each other. It's awful, but that's just part of life. It doesn't mean God required anything.

You mean that when God commanded Abinadi to testify boldly against Noah and his priests that there wasn't an understanding that Abinadi would die in the process? Did God say "oops"?

Abinadi knew full well what God commanded him to do would result in his own death and firmly refused to recant his testimony in order to save his life.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Tex

Godwin's law truly is wonderful.

Without Hitler, we wouldn't be in Iraq right now. You hawks are the champions of Godwin's law.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

Without Hitler, we wouldn't be in Iraq right now. You hawks are the champions of Godwin's law.

Do keep your brain in a jar?

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Do keep your brain in a jar?

Let's step back and think about this for a minute.

You believe that God sent a bunch of Jews to America. That's fine. I'm open to that possibility. There's no evidence for it, though. You also believe that God talks to prophets and tortures and kills people and can even ask a man to kill his own children. You probably also believe that God flooded the world and killed all of humanity, and that Noah crammed millions upon millions of species into a relatively small boat.

You have no room to talk. Evidence does not support much of anything in religion. Religion=philosophy, but not fact. If you can't see the inconsistencies and impossibilities contained in most of scripture, then you're the one with his brain in a jar.

I believe in the Book of Mormon, but I believe in an extremely flexible interpretation of who wrote the words and what the words mean, and I'm open to the possibility that Nephi wasn't even a real person. It doesn't change the fact that I believe God inspires people to do good things, and I believe that being a Mormon makes people better than they would otherwise be. The rest is just details.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

Let's step back and think about this for a minute.

You believe that God sent a bunch of Jews to America. That's fine. I'm open to that possibility. There's no evidence for it, though. You also believe that God talks to prophets and tortures and kills people and can even ask a man to kill his own children. You probably also believe that God flooded the world and killed all of humanity, and that Noah crammed millions upon millions of species into a relatively small boat.

You have no room to talk. Evidence does not support much of anything in religion. Religion=philosophy, but not fact. If you can't see the inconsistencies and impossibilities contained in most of scripture, then you're the one with his brain in a jar.

I believe in the Book of Mormon, but I believe in an extremely flexible interpretation of who wrote the words and what the words mean, and I'm open to the possibility that Nephi wasn't even a real person. It doesn't change the fact that I believe God inspires people to do good things, and I believe that being a Mormon makes people better than they would otherwise be. The rest is just details.

My comments are directed specifically at your "contributions" to this thread. You started off badly and went downhill from there. Your last comment to Tex was beyond stupid.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

My comments are directed specifically at your "contributions" to this thread. You started off badly and went downhill from there. Your last comment to Tex was beyond stupid.

How is that stupid? Hitler is the ultimate justification for pre-emptive war. (We should have stopped Hitler before he invaded other countries.) Every time we start a war, conservatives speculate that a dictator could be the next Hitler.