Monson: Gay Marriage Fight in CA 'Is Our Gettysburg'

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Flystripper

are you sure? I'm not.

Fair enough. We disagree.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

LOL. Do we know the same MikeWaters? I don't think for a minute he believes his church is really always right. Does intentional irony mean lack of sincerity? I don't think so.

I think Waters has a perfect pitch appreciation for the utter--ineed darkly comic--absurdity of the chasm between Mormons' conviction their church is "always right," and the reality that it is always wrong, and spectacularly so. The thng the Mormon Church does best is dissemble concerning its history of having been wrong about important matters.

I don't claim to know Waters. I only read what he types. You see what you want to and perhaps I do to. Waters is a big boy and will, I am sure, defend himself as he feels necessary.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by creekster

I don't claim to know Waters. I only read what he types. You see what you want to and perhaps I do to. Waters is a big boy and will, I am sure, defend himself as he feels necessary.

MikeWaters used to be the biggest troll in the small world of BYU sports boards. Somewhere along the line, I believe that he actually started believing the crap he was trying to sell. We've seen this many times in history, usually to the detriment of mankind.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by ute4ever

I think this would be just one needle in the haystack, consisting of rampant heterosexual adultery, child abuse, spousal abuse (emotional & physical), lies, guile, conspiracy, theft, embezzlement, murder, rape, statutory rape, atheism, pride, materialism, false priests who repress and destroy, lack of love or concern for one another and the whole 9 yards.

However while all of those other needles (and the many that were not mentioned) are long-standing and growing by the minute, this particular needle opens a whole new can of worms on "legalized immorality" - in the eyes of God. (That is what the church's crusade is implying).

Nice try, sucker.

I'm not taking your bait, hook, line and sinker.

Get back to me when you want to have a serious conversation.

[MikeWaters]

where are the anti-slavery quotes? seriously, I would like to see them to help balance things.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

MikeWaters used to be the biggest troll in the small world of BYU sports boards. Somewhere along the line, I believe that he actually started believing the crap he was trying to sell. We've seen this many times in history, usually to the detriment of mankind.

People call me a troll.

but then I ask them to name one subject I have harped on that I don't believe.

And they can't name one.

[Sleeping in EQ]

I'm certainly not out to cast Brigham Young in a negative, one-dimensional light.

Of course a single quote does not give an "entirely complete view," (and neither do two quotes) but the 1859 statement is clear and covers a fair amount of ground. Pelagius' quote actually doesn't hit the issue quite as head on--it suggests that BY doesn't like how the Southerners went about their slavery and that it "ruins their soil." It doesn't speak against BY's declaration of slavery as a "Divine institution."

[MikeWaters]

A SS teacher when I was 13 or so taught me about Lincoln and the church and the Civil War.

When you are 13, it comes as quite a shock.

You are told that you are the most flag-waving group in the whole country, and you think this has always been true.

I guess they have changed the manuals since then.

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

where are the anti-slavery quotes? seriously, I would like to see them to help balance things.

Waters people are responding to the following quote of Brigham Young that I highlighted earlier in the thread:

The South has a beautiful climate and rich soil, but slavery ruins any soil. --Brigham Young, 1860

[ute4ever]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Nice try, sucker.

I'm not taking your bait, hook, line and sinker.

Get back to me when you want to have a serious conversation.

I have to admit that I don't like the idea of fighting gay marriage, and many others here have voiced the same. But what I don't see here is a consensus of people trying to understand the church's point of view. What I primarily see is "they're wrong, they're wrong, they're wrong! I don't care the who's, when's or why's; they're wrong!"

I am offering ideas from the other side of the coin and am being called out as a troll for doing so. My mistake. Please forgive me. Let's resume bashing those stupid, uneducated, uncultured, living-in-the-50's, out-of-touch bigots.