3 day suspension for me

[El Jefe]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

if he said that, it's not true.

he's many thousands of dollars in the black.

Count the number of donors. That is at minimum $10 per. More accurate might be something like $13 per (some donate more than once or donate more than minimum).

and that's not even including ad revenue.

I believe I may have said that in the past. I have not said that recently. Ever since I started getting free hosting for the server, I have had very few expenses, and thus have been in the black. Before that, I was in the black most months, but really not by much. I do remember telling someone that while Cougarboard made money, if I was paid hourly, it would be less than minimum wage. It's mostly my own fault for how I do things over there, but I'm guessing that I put a lot more time into Cougarboard than you put into this site.

The advertising didn't actually generate a ton of revenue until recently. It was pretty ridiculous, in fact. The Google ads were horrible. The company I've been working with for the advertising has had a hard time getting things going, so I was stuck displaying ads that I wasn't really happy with because of a contract that I had made with them. I almost canceled the contract, but they finally got things worked out at the last minute before the deadline.

One more point - many donors have changed usernames, and they show up twice in the donor list. I should really fix that, it wouldn't be too hard. Also, some people are listed as donor even though they haven't donated, for various reasons.

Last thing - in your appeal, you gave the impression that you thought I was just trying to make money off of the billboard thing. I assure you that I am not. So far, not only is it costing me more than people donated (which I'm happy to cover), but I've also put a fair amount of time into it, probably 30-40 hours so far. I'm excited that we're finally going to see some results, but I'm planning to take a break...

You definitely have a pessimistic view of my motives. It's unfortunate. I do run Cougarboard differently than you run Cougarguard. I know your opinion of me and of Cougarboard is colored by experiences that you've had, and I'm sorry I haven't been able to do a better job addressing your concerns.

[All-American]

Originally Posted by El Jefe

I believe I may have said that in the past. I have not said that recently. Ever since I started getting free hosting for the server, I have had very few expenses, and thus have been in the black. Before that, I was in the black most months, but really not by much. I do remember telling someone that while Cougarboard made money, if I was paid hourly, it would be less than minimum wage. It's mostly my own fault for how I do things over there, but I'm guessing that I put a lot more time into Cougarboard than you put into this site.

The advertising didn't actually generate a ton of revenue until recently. It was pretty ridiculous, in fact. The Google ads were horrible. The company I've been working with for the advertising has had a hard time getting things going, so I was stuck displaying ads that I wasn't really happy with because of a contract that I had made with them. I almost canceled the contract, but they finally got things worked out at the last minute before the deadline.

One more point - many donors have changed usernames, and they show up twice in the donor list. I should really fix that, it wouldn't be too hard. Also, some people are listed as donor even though they haven't donated, for various reasons.

Last thing - in your appeal, you gave the impression that you thought I was just trying to make money off of the billboard thing. I assure you that I am not. So far, not only is it costing me more than people donated (which I'm happy to cover), but I've also put a fair amount of time into it, probably 30-40 hours so far. I'm excited that we're finally going to see some results, but I'm planning to take a break...

You definitely have a pessimistic view of my motives. It's unfortunate. I do run Cougarboard differently than you run Cougarguard. I know your opinion of me and of Cougarboard is colored by experiences that you've had, and I'm sorry I haven't been able to do a better job addressing your concerns.

"Colored by experiences." Let's talk about that for a second.

The experiences I personally have had, with which fellow CG'ers are free to agree or disagree, is that it's just gotten too heavy-handed over there. Cougarboard used to be a place to discuss, to interact, and to participate in a quasi-community. Now, it's not good for much else besides an instant survey on the pulse of cougar fans.

I will grudgingly admit that moderation on a board of that size is probably necessary. I often find the rules to be overly extensive, intrusive, and just plain annoying, but I don't necessarily believe you don't have an argument for keeping them in place. This is not intended to be a criticism, but an observation. Cougarboard is simply no longer the place it once was for a good number of posters, and I would dare to say that moderation and its effects, both immediate and secondary, are a principle reason.

Our "experience" is that the one true and living board is not what it once appeared to be. I personally regret the loss.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by El Jefe

I believe I may have said that in the past. I have not said that recently. Ever since I started getting free hosting for the server, I have had very few expenses, and thus have been in the black. Before that, I was in the black most months, but really not by much. I do remember telling someone that while Cougarboard made money, if I was paid hourly, it would be less than minimum wage. It's mostly my own fault for how I do things over there, but I'm guessing that I put a lot more time into Cougarboard than you put into this site.

The advertising didn't actually generate a ton of revenue until recently. It was pretty ridiculous, in fact. The Google ads were horrible. The company I've been working with for the advertising has had a hard time getting things going, so I was stuck displaying ads that I wasn't really happy with because of a contract that I had made with them. I almost canceled the contract, but they finally got things worked out at the last minute before the deadline.

One more point - many donors have changed usernames, and they show up twice in the donor list. I should really fix that, it wouldn't be too hard. Also, some people are listed as donor even though they haven't donated, for various reasons.

Last thing - in your appeal, you gave the impression that you thought I was just trying to make money off of the billboard thing. I assure you that I am not. So far, not only is it costing me more than people donated (which I'm happy to cover), but I've also put a fair amount of time into it, probably 30-40 hours so far. I'm excited that we're finally going to see some results, but I'm planning to take a break...

You definitely have a pessimistic view of my motives. It's unfortunate. I do run Cougarboard differently than you run Cougarguard. I know your opinion of me and of Cougarboard is colored by experiences that you've had, and I'm sorry I haven't been able to do a better job addressing your concerns.

As a devout Capitalist if you are making money on CB I applaud you. If you are making a lot of money, I not only applaud, but also cheer you.

Even though I no longer post there, I still find CB worthwhile, although there are fewer and fewer checks on the lala land crowd, CB is certainly worth a $10 contribution each year from me.

If Mike ended up making money here, I would feel the same about him. However, through the years Mike has portrayed himself, I believe he is sincere, as one who believes the pursuit of money is evil. I am sure they will much happier when the "law of consecration is instituted."

[MikeWaters]

So there you have it.

Cougarguard actually costs more to run than cougarboard.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

So there you have it.

Cougarguard actually costs more to run than cougarboard.

I have read this thread, but I still don't get your point. Are you the kind of guy who gets pissed because the neighbor works 40 hours a week and makes more money than you do working 40 hours a week. Wait, I guess based on past discussions, that is the kind of guy your are.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I have read this thread, but I still don't get your point. Are you the kind of guy who gets pissed because the neighbor works 40 hours a week and makes more money than you do working 40 hours a week. Wait, I guess based on past discussions, that is the kind of guy your are.

someone asked if Jefe makes money.

The situation we have here is like finding out that mom & pop convenience store has a higher operating cost than the Law firm downtown that takes up 10 floors.

Good for Jefe. We have different philosophies. Money vs. community. Most of the time these can live peaceably with each other. But when they don't....

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

someone asked if Jefe makes money.

The situation we have here is like finding out that mom & pop convenience store has a higher operating cost than the Law firm downtown that takes up 10 floors.

Good for Jefe. We have different philosophies. Money vs. community. Most of the time these can live peaceably with each other. But when they don't....

Nice framing of the situation, "money vs community". That is perfect "liberal" speak. Community good, money bad. Problem is I don't buy it. I believe community good, money good.

I see it as you offer different products. Why shouldn't the public be allowed to choose without the two being able to live peacably together. I don't think it is the good vs bad thing. How about neither is good or bad, just different.

I understand though that is hard to do for all of us. Fox and CNN offer different products. I am sure you and I disagree on which offers a good product and which offers a poor one.

By the way, I will contribute to this board not because you are doing something good for the community, but because you offer a good product.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Nice framing of the situation, "money vs community". That is perfect "liberal" speak. Community good, money bad. Problem is I don't buy it. I believe community good, money good.

I see it as you offer different products. Why shouldn't the public be allowed to choose without the two being able to live peacably together. I think it is the good vs bad thing. How about neither is good or bad, just different.

I understand though that is hard to do for all of us. Fox and CNN offer different products. I am sure you and I disagree on which offers a good product and which offers a poor one.

By the way, I will contribute to this board not because you are doing something good for the community, but because you offer a good product.

It's because of Jefe's philosophy that I have a product to offer at all. That there is a niche.

I created the product not because I wanted to make money (I have lost money when you throw in time and effort and aggravation), but because *I* wanted the product.

This site owes its existence to the time Jefe decided to basically ban religion posts.

So I thank Jefe for that era of particularly onerous heavy-handedness.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

It's because of Jefe's philosophy that I have a product to offer at all. That there is a niche.

I created the product not because I wanted to make money (I have lost money when you throw in time and effort and aggravation), but because *I* wanted the product.

This site owes its existence to the time Jefe decided to basically ban religion posts.

So I thank Jefe for that era of particularly onerous heavy-handedness.

I am not particularly excited about how CB has evolved myself. However, I have no ill feelings toward Jefe over it.

When I have criticized BYU I get the usual complaints that I dislike BYU or don't support the church school. That is so much crap and it got tiring responding to it. I can criticize all I want and if the product drifts to far away from how I feel, I can stop participating. In my simple mind it doesn't make BYU bad or me bad. We just have enough differences that cause us to part.

Fortunately for me, the drift apart with me and BYU stopped. For the most part they are doing what I wanted to see.

[El Jefe]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

someone asked if Jefe makes money.

The situation we have here is like finding out that mom & pop convenience store has a higher operating cost than the Law firm downtown that takes up 10 floors.

Good for Jefe. We have different philosophies. Money vs. community. Most of the time these can live peaceably with each other. But when they don't....

I never said that Cougarboard has no costs. I just said that the hosting is free.

Also, I don't see it as money vs. community. Cougarboard (for me at least) has always been about community first. Did I try to make money from it as well? Yes, obviously. But the community always was the primary motivator.

Think of it this way. The two things I enjoy most in life are working with computers and Cougar football. Cougarboard is a way for me to do both. That's why I run the site.

As for your accusation that I decided I could make more money by not having you on the board, I assure you that the thought never even occurred to me. For one thing, you're being fundamentally dishonest with that accusation, as I wasn't involved at all in you being banned.

Besides that, though, you were given a 3 day penalty because of your trolling on Cougarboard, and for no other reason. You know you're a troll. You ask "honest questions" that are completely insincere, and then whine when someone calls you on it. You get into pissing contests with Snipe, Tex, and whoever else, which 99% of the board would rather not be bothered with, and then come here and talk about how Cougarboard lacks "community".

If some of the moderators can't stand you, it has nothing to do with me.