For those of you who desire government centrally controlled economies

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

The main issue that complicates things for me in this debate is that there is a big difference between a global free market and an American free market.

Nowadays, we're encountering new issues for which there is little precedent (global megacorportations, etc).

We've also all benefitted from the global free market, but we usually tend to ignore those benefits and only focus on the negatives. If we had gone protectionist in the auto industry as Detroit would have wanted when the imports started to hit the American market, we might still be driving Pintos, Gremlins, Novas, Pacers, Chrysler K cars, and all the other junk Detroit used to put out. Competition forces everyone to improve and we're all better off that we allowed Japanese companies to force us to compete. American cars are much better now than they were back then. Industries get fat and lazy like individuals do when there is no incentive to get better. Protectionism only coddles mediocrity. Yes, there is displacement when new markets open up and that's hard for those affected by it. However, there are ways to help those people adjust to the changes in the market without giving struggling industries the incentive to be mediocre. I'm not against helping individuals adjust to changing circumstances in the marketplace.

[ChinoCoug]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

This ladies and Gentleman above is the reason Detroit is in bad shape....

Which reminds me of a business idea I had... Get 50-100 thousand immigrants to move to detroit on work visas that pay them $8 and hour ($11 hour with fica and benefits) and have them work in the factories for the big 3 and their suppliers at $15 an hour (as cheap as having a car produced in china with all things considered)

Yeah right. Detroit is unionized like mad.

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

Also, I think social safety nets such as social security, medicare, welfare, and unemployment insurance act as automatic stabilizers of the economy during recessions.

None of this existed prior to the Great Depression, of course. This is an example of government involvement that may seem inefficient and silly during times of plenty. However, I think these programs also help keep lots of people afloat during hard times, thereby preventing the pessimism and downward spiral that can lead to more prolonged and severe recessions.

The Great Depression was greatly exacerbated by the passage of the Hawley Smoot tariff, which I believe was the highest tariff in American History. There were many other causes of the Depression, but being hyper-protectionist during a slowdown or stoppage of the economy is one of the dumbest possible things to do. Especially unfortunate was that it was applied to agricultural goods which meant higher food prices during a time when people were going hungry.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by BlueK

The Great Depression was greatly exacerbated by the passage of the Hawley Smoot tariff, which I believe was the highest tariff in American History. There were many other causes of the Depression, but being hyper-protectionist during a slowdown or stoppage of the economy is one of the dumbest possible things to do. Especially unfortunate was that it was applied to agricultural goods which meant higher food prices during a time when people were going hungry.

IMHO .... the great depression was a large causality of the FED coming into existence and US going away from the gold standard.

Mormon Red Death's rule of thumb: "Whenever the government get involved in the economy we're screwed"

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

That's funny.

"Mary had a little lamb
and when it became sicken
She sent it down to Packingtown
and now it's labeled "chicken." "




Like I said to begin with, It's not a vacuum. Other nations protect their workers. Why shouldn't we do the same?

You don't send your team onto the field naked if the opponents wear pads and helmets.

protectionism helps a few but punishes the majority. In the long term it slows the economy for everyone putting even more people out of work. Better to help the few individually to cope with the changes in the economy through job retraining programs, education, etc.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by ChinoCoug

Yeah right. Detroit is unionized like mad.

At least the jobs wouldnt be going overseas..

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

IMHO .... the great depression was a large causality of the FED coming into existence and US going away from the gold standard.

Mormon Red Death's rule of thumb: "Whenever the government get involved in the economy we're screwed"

this article says that the mere discussion of the possible pasage of the Hawley-Smoot tariff was a cause of the stock market crash. Over 1,000 economists urged the Congress not to pass it and Hoover not to sign it, but they did it anyway and IMO, what should have been a minor recession turned into a major depression. I mean, seriously, how much sense does it make to stick a very high tax on agricultural products in the midst of a crappy economy when people don't have money to buy food? Government idiocy at it's finest. Today only Pat Buchanan thinks it was a good idea apparently. Good enough for me to take the opposite view. I don't think I agree with him on anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot-Hawley_Tariff_Act

[SoCalCoug]

Originally Posted by BlueK

protectionism helps a few but punishes the majority. In the long term it slows the economy for everyone putting even more people out of work. Better to help the few individually to cope with the changes in the economy through job retraining programs, education, etc.

Long live the tyranny of the majority!

[ChinoCoug]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

At least the jobs wouldnt be going overseas..

I'm saying unions won't allow immigrant laborers in.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by ChinoCoug

I'm saying unions won't allow immigrant laborers in.

I know ... I was trying to be tongue in cheek