Tyler Hammilton - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

DirtyHippieUTE · 09-01-2005, 11:25 PM

Have any of you been following his story. Does anybody think he's getting the shaft?

Broken down, here's the story from Tyler's point of view.

Cycling tests for elevated levels of red blood cells. If you come out with a "suspicious" level they warn you that you're going to be under the microscope. Tyler got one of those warnings. At the Athens olympics they tested his blood and said he had tested positive on a test that checks for other people's red blood cells in your system.

Adding someone else's red blood cells to your system would boost your ability to deliver oxygen to your muscles = better performance. It's just another kind of "doping."

They tried to confirm the positive with his 2nd (control) sample and apparently there was something wrong with it so they couldn't verify the positive. He was let off and kept the gold but was still on the watchlist.

Later at the Giro d' Italia (I think). He tests positive again. They suspend him for 2 years and pretty much his career is over.

According to Tyler... He has never had a transfusion or anything like unto it. So how did he test positive? Apparently, it doesn't matter. Because in cycling you're guilty until proven innocent. Tyler has appealed and at the US level he lost a split verdict. He has since appealed to CAS (court of arbitration for sport) and they are the final say.

Here are the details. The people who tested Tyler's blood a- Knew it was Tyler's blood they were testing, b- are the same guys who invented the test c- can't provide any information on the accuracy of the test.

In other words... A test that has no data to show how often it gives a false positive or how often it gives a false negative or what threshold constitutes a positive, administered incorrectly (not blind) by someone who has a vested interest in proving the test works (the inventor) is responsible for costing Tyler his livlihood.

MikeWaters · 09-07-2005, 08:36 PM

I've read Tyler's response and found it very unconvincing.

creekster · 09-07-2005, 09:01 PM

The original test may have been a simple hematocrit level test, but subsequently they looked for genetic markers showing that some of the blood cells came from someone else's bone marrow. His Olympic B sample had been frozen and so, by the lab's protocol, could not be used to confirm the A sample test. Without the confirmation he could not be sanctioned.

The later positive test from the Giro (was it the Giro?) was confirmed with the B sample.

It is simply incorrect to say that the test has an unknown rate of false positives. To the contrary, the test is very, very accurate. The test is so good that there are very few plausible or even possible alternate explanations for a positive result. One exlpanation, and by far the most likely, is that someone else's blood was injected. ANother explanation, and one which I frankly find rather hard to accept, is that lodged somewhere within TH's body are cells from a vanishing or chimerical twin that began forming in the womb with TH but whose body was absorbed by TH, while still in the womb. This means that the cells are technically from another person, hence the test results, but that they are not the result of cheating. The Chimerical Twin idea is explained here in a subscription required NYT article:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/health/...6C0A 9639C8B63

I like TH a lot and have always admired him. Honestly, if he was doping then my guess is most of the riders are doping, including Armstrong, but I sure find his claim hard to swallow.

MikeWaters · 09-07-2005, 09:27 PM

not to mention that his hematocrit had shot up from something like 30 to 50 over a relatively short time.

creekster · 09-07-2005, 09:52 PM

is that if he had a chimerical twin he should be able to replicate the positive test quite easily. Indeed, every time he tests he should show positive. He doesn't. Instead, he only showed positive when, in a striking coincidence, his hematocrit level had shot up to or over 50. So not only does he have a chimierical twin, but it is one that only bothers to be presnt sometimes for a test. When it is present, however, it really cranks out the blood cells.

Like I said, I find this unfortunate b/c I always liked TH, but his story is just too hard to swallow.

SteelBlue · 09-07-2005, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creekster

The later positive test from the Giro (was it the Giro?) was confirmed with the B sample.

I think it was the Vuelta.

Also, wouldn't "chimerical twin" be a good name for a band? :P

creekster · 09-07-2005, 10:56 PM

Excellent band name.

View Poll Results: Dopers??
Lance Armstrong	2	33.33%
Tyler Hammilton	2	33.33%
Friggin' Frenchies need to take a pill	2	33.33%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

09-01-2005, 11:25 PM	#1
DirtyHippieUTE Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,151	Tyler Hammilton Have any of you been following his story. Does anybody think he's getting the shaft? Broken down, here's the story from Tyler's point of view. Cycling tests for elevated levels of red blood cells. If you come out with a "suspicious" level they warn you that you're going to be under the microscope. Tyler got one of those warnings. At the Athens olympics they tested his blood and said he had tested positive on a test that checks for other people's red blood cells in your system. Adding someone else's red blood cells to your system would boost your ability to deliver oxygen to your muscles = better performance. It's just another kind of "doping." They tried to confirm the positive with his 2nd (control) sample and apparently there was something wrong with it so they couldn't verify the positive. He was let off and kept the gold but was still on the watchlist. Later at the Giro d' Italia (I think). He tests positive again. They suspend him for 2 years and pretty much his career is over. According to Tyler... He has never had a transfusion or anything like unto it. So how did he test positive? Apparently, it doesn't matter. Because in cycling you're guilty until proven innocent. Tyler has appealed and at the US level he lost a split verdict. He has since appealed to CAS (court of arbitration for sport) and they are the final say. Here are the details. The people who tested Tyler's blood a- Knew it was Tyler's blood they were testing, b- are the same guys who invented the test c- can't provide any information on the accuracy of the test. In other words... A test that has no data to show how often it gives a false positive or how often it gives a false negative or what threshold constitutes a positive, administered incorrectly (not blind) by someone who has a vested interest in proving the test works (the inventor) is responsible for costing Tyler his livlihood.

09-07-2005, 09:01 PM	#3
creekster Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: the far corner of my mind Posts: 8,711	I think you are not accurately giving the back story The original test may have been a simple hematocrit level test, but subsequently they looked for genetic markers showing that some of the blood cells came from someone else's bone marrow. His Olympic B sample had been frozen and so, by the lab's protocol, could not be used to confirm the A sample test. Without the confirmation he could not be sanctioned. The later positive test from the Giro (was it the Giro?) was confirmed with the B sample. It is simply incorrect to say that the test has an unknown rate of false positives. To the contrary, the test is very, very accurate. The test is so good that there are very few plausible or even possible alternate explanations for a positive result. One exlpanation, and by far the most likely, is that someone else's blood was injected. ANother explanation, and one which I frankly find rather hard to accept, is that lodged somewhere within TH's body are cells from a vanishing or chimerical twin that began forming in the womb with TH but whose body was absorbed by TH, while still in the womb. This means that the cells are technically from another person, hence the test results, but that they are not the result of cheating. The Chimerical Twin idea is explained here in a subscription required NYT article: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/health/...6C0A 9639C8B63 I like TH a lot and have always admired him. Honestly, if he was doping then my guess is most of the riders are doping, including Armstrong, but I sure find his claim hard to swallow.

09-07-2005, 09:52 PM	#5
creekster Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: the far corner of my mind Posts: 8,711	Furthermore, antoher problem with TH's position is that if he had a chimerical twin he should be able to replicate the positive test quite easily. Indeed, every time he tests he should show positive. He doesn't. Instead, he only showed positive when, in a striking coincidence, his hematocrit level had shot up to or over 50. So not only does he have a chimierical twin, but it is one that only bothers to be presnt sometimes for a test. When it is present, however, it really cranks out the blood cells. Like I said, I find this unfortunate b/c I always liked TH, but his story is just too hard to swallow.

09-07-2005, 10:56 PM	#7
creekster Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: the far corner of my mind Posts: 8,711	Chimerical Twin = Excellent band name.

09-07-2005, 08:36 PM	#2
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I've read Tyler's response and found it very unconvincing.

09-07-2005, 09:27 PM	#4
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	not to mention that his hematocrit had shot up from something like 30 to 50 over a relatively short time.