Press is reporting - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

BarbaraGordon · 03-09-2008, 04:29 AM

that Barack has ruled out a VP slot. But that's not what he said.

What he said is:

"Well, you know, I think it’s premature. You won’t see me as a vice presidential candidate -- you know, I’m running for president. We have won twice as many states as Senator Clinton, and have a higher popular vote, and I think we can maintain our delegate count."

The implication is that he won't run as VP because he'll be running as Prez...not that he would never consider a VP position.

Even so, I can't see how he and Hillary would ever run together at this point. They may have worked together in the past, but the race has gotten too personal and too ugly for them to be on the same ticket in November.

il Padrino Ute · 03-09-2008, 04:48 AM

I agree with you about neither being the VP for the other.

The Clintons just don't make friends and it is a result of how they run campaigns - don't just beat the opponent, but destroy him. Obama is starting to understand that to compete against Mrs. Clinton, he can't be too civil.

I'm just enjoying watching this all unfold. The Dems may take the White House, but the party could be permanently fractured.

malapert · 03-09-2008, 06:30 AM

Hillary has to win 58% of the remaining delegates to secure the nomination. Heretofore she hasn't won 58% in any caucus or primary. It is a slow death to which she is subjecting herself. Now that's entertainment.

Lamentably, I agree with il padrino, the Dems will likely take the WH. Ergo, your next President of the United States......BHO.

myboynoah · 03-09-2008, 01:43 PM

Hillary's plan is to win as much of the popular vote as possible, in particular, registered Dem votes. Also, she wants to win as many primary states as possible. Hence, come convention time, she can argue that she won the popular vote as well as the most primaries. She will argue that caucuses are the questionable in terms of their true representation. Additionally, she will note that she won the larger states as well as the battleground states (she will say that Obama racking up wins in heavily red states is useless in the GE). Her hope will be that she can portray herself to the Super Delegates as truely representative of the party and the most electable.

BarbaraGordon · 03-09-2008, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myboynoah

Her hope will be that she can portray herself to the Super Delegates as truely representative of the party and the most electable.

I think Noah's got it figured out. She's not silly enough to actually think she can still "win" the primary vote. She's just trying to win a couple of big-name states to regain a sense of legitimacy about her candidacy. If she can do that, then she'll feel justified in making a pitch, like the one Noah describes above, to the uncommited Superdelegates.

That's what she meant when she said her campaign had "turned the corner" last week. Before that point, the public had lost all sense that she was still a valid contender. She was quickly becoming little more than a nuisance and an inconvenience for the party. There was no way she could try to argue for the Superdelegates or for Florida and Michigan revotes.

The wins last week didn't change the fact that it's mathematically near impossible for her to win the majority of state delgates - the wins actually made her numbers situation worse - but what the wins did do is change the public perception of her role in the primary. She's hoping to use the new improved comeback kid perception to slingshot herself to the nomination.

I have no idea whether it'll work. A month ago I thought there was no way in hell they'd overturn the popular vote at convention. I still kind of lean that direction, but I don't know what to think anymore. The whole thing is just bizarre.

As for those of you convinced the Democrats are a shoe-in for the White House, this chaos the party has constructed - combined with the two candidates they're considering - is a really good way to start conceding the Oval Office to McCain.

Cali Coug · 03-09-2008, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

I think Noah's got it figured out. She's not silly enough to actually think she can still "win" the primary vote. She's just trying to win a couple of big-name states to regain a sense of legitimacy about her candidacy. If she can do that, then she'll feel justified in making a pitch, like the one Noah describes above, to the uncommited Superdelegates.

That's what she meant when she said her campaign had "turned the corner" last week. Before that point, the public had lost all sense that she was still a valid contender. She was quickly becoming little more than a nuisance and an inconvenience for the party. There was no way she could try to argue for the Superdelegates or for Florida and Michigan revotes.

The wins last week didn't change the fact that it's mathematically near impossible for her to win the majority of state delgates - the wins actually made her numbers situation worse - but what the wins did do is change the public perception of her role in the primary. She's hoping to use the new improved comeback kid perception to slingshot herself to the nomination.

I have no idea whether it'll work. A month ago I thought there was no way in hell they'd overturn the popular vote at convention. I still kind of lean that direction, but I don't know what to think anymore. The whole thing is just bizarre.

As for those of you convinced the Democrats are a shoe-in for the White House, this chaos the party has constructed - combined with the two candidates they're considering - is a really good way to start conceding the Oval Office to McCain.

I don't think that will be her approach. Polling almost universally suggests Obama is more electable.

I think the more likely approach she will take will be to point out that the Democrats should do what ensures they will keep the White House the longest. She could be the president and Obama would be the VP. After 8 years, he would be the president, giving the Dems 16 years in the White House. In 8 years, her best years will be behind her, whereas Obama is young and will be a perfect fit for the White House in 8 years. I think she will also point out that many of the superdelegates owe their career to the Clintons, and they will push hard to cash in those chips.

I don't think it will work in the end, but she very well could wind up as VP, which I think is good for the party and bad for what Obama is trying to do as president.

il Padrino Ute · 03-09-2008, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

As for those of you convinced the Democrats are a shoe-in for the White House, this chaos the party has constructed - combined with the two candidates they're considering - is a really good way to start conceding the Oval Office to McCain.

I'm not 100% convinced that the Dems will take the White House - there is enough animosity between the Obama and Clinton camp that one side could support McCain out of spite for the other side.

I'm just amused and am enjoying what is happening. If it gets to that point, it would do my heart good and bring a smile to my face to see the Democrat party crumble and go away forever. Or at least become insignificant forever.

BarbaraGordon · 03-09-2008, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I don't think that will be her approach. Polling almost universally suggests Obama is more electable...

I don't think it will work in the end, but she very well could wind up as VP, which I think is good for the party and bad for what Obama is trying to do as president.

I saw a numeric analysis last week that showed why neither one of the Dems is a stronger general election candidate. They've both got serious number problems. I'll look it up and see if I can find it. So she could make an argument if she wanted to.

Obama would never in a million years choose Hillary as a VP, would he? She's too much of a liability to his ticket.

BarbaraGordon · 03-09-2008, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

If it gets to that point, it would do my heart good and bring a smile to my face.

It would have a very high comedic value, wouldn't it? The Dems "Kerry" themselves yet again. Good grief. You'd start to wonder if they can't find any electable candidate! I think maybe Gore would have been a sure thing for them this time around, but he's too busy traversing the country changing out incandescent lightbulbs.

hyrum · 03-09-2008, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiteRider

I think that if Hillary wins the nomination, after Obama wins a majority of states, a majority of votes, and has a majority of delegates, it would ruin the Democratic party. If that is the situation I predict that Obama will resign from the part and head a ticket with Bloomberg at his side for VP. And they will win, the Democratic party will be gone, and there will be a new 2nd party in town.

As long as you are smoking crack, why not throw Mitt Romney in there somewhere?

03-09-2008, 04:29 AM	#1
BarbaraGordon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Gotham City Posts: 7,157	Press is reporting that Barack has ruled out a VP slot. But that's not what he said. What he said is: "Well, you know, I think it’s premature. You won’t see me as a vice presidential candidate -- you know, I’m running for president. We have won twice as many states as Senator Clinton, and have a higher popular vote, and I think we can maintain our delegate count." The implication is that he won't run as VP because he'll be running as Prez...not that he would never consider a VP position. Even so, I can't see how he and Hillary would ever run together at this point. They may have worked together in the past, but the race has gotten too personal and too ugly for them to be on the same ticket in November.

03-09-2008, 04:48 AM	#2
il Padrino Ute Board Pinhead Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the basement of my house, Murray, Utah. Posts: 15,941	I agree with you about neither being the VP for the other. The Clintons just don't make friends and it is a result of how they run campaigns - don't just beat the opponent, but destroy him. Obama is starting to understand that to compete against Mrs. Clinton, he can't be too civil. I'm just enjoying watching this all unfold. The Dems may take the White House, but the party could be permanently fractured. __________________ "The beauty of baseball is not having to explain it." - Chuck Shriver "This is now the joke that stupid people laugh at." - Christopher Hitchens on IQ jokes about GWB.

03-09-2008, 06:30 AM	#3
malapert Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Pole Posts: 148	Hillary has to win 58% of the remaining delegates to secure the nomination. Heretofore she hasn't won 58% in any caucus or primary. It is a slow death to which she is subjecting herself. Now that's entertainment. Lamentably, I agree with il padrino, the Dems will likely take the WH. Ergo, your next President of the United States......BHO. __________________ . "He has all the virtues I dislike--and none of the vices I admire." -Winston Churchill "He has no enemies, but is intensely disliked by his friends." -Oscar Wilde "In order to avoid being called a flirt, she always yielded easily." -Charles, Count Talleyrand

03-09-2008, 01:43 PM	#4
myboynoah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Memphis freakin' Tennessee!!!!! Posts: 4,530	Hillary's plan is to win as much of the popular vote as possible, in particular, registered Dem votes. Also, she wants to win as many primary states as possible. Hence, come convention time, she can argue that she won the popular vote as well as the most primaries. She will argue that caucuses are the questionable in terms of their true representation. Additionally, she will note that she won the larger states as well as the battleground states (she will say that Obama racking up wins in heavily red states is useless in the GE). Her hope will be that she can portray herself to the Super Delegates as truely representative of the party and the most electable. __________________ Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!! Religion rises inevitably from our apprehension of our own death. To give meaning to meaninglessness is the endless quest of all religion. When death becomes the center of our consciousness, then religion authentically begins. Of all religions that I know, the one that most vehemently and persuasively defies and denies the reality of death is the original Mormonism of the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Joseph Smith.