A MORE interesting discussion about FLDS

[exUte]

Originally Posted by Spaz

To me, a far more interesting debate brought up by the FLDS situation is the separation of abuse from beliefs.

To help explain, I'll give a few examples of situations...


Case A: A child is taught from the time she's born that plural marriage is the way to go. When she turns 13, she's told by her parents to marry an old fugly dude in his fifties. Believing it's God's will, she does so willingly, promptly becoming pregnant.

Case B: Same as above, except that the girl decides she doesn't want to marry the fugly dude, and objects. She is forced to marry him, promptly becoming pregnant.

Case C: Same as case A, but this girl is seventeen when married.

Case D: Same as case B, except the girl is seventeen when married.



To me, cases B & D obviously represent sexual abuse. Case C obviously does not.

I'm undecided on Case A.

any religion needs to follow the law of the land. From what I understand it is against the law to wed at the age of 13/14 without a court order. From a medical perspective, getting pregnant at the age of 13 is NOT good.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by Spaz

To me, if the girl says "I don't want to", but is married anyway, it's 'forced', regardless of coercive methods used.

So a woman could claim rape if she was talked into sex?

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

So then I guess the real question is what amounts to "indoctrination" vs. "teaching" and where does agency fit in. Not an easy question to answer.

True, socioligists might make a stab at it, but what do they know.

Personally, I felt I was taught.

However, if I see someone smoking or drinking I have a reflexive reaction to first thing I think is the person is not a good person. Is that a taught behavior response or indoctrinated response. I don't know, but I find it curious after all these years and I know better, that is a response.

[MikeWaters]

Bulls in china shops don't get into the inner circle. Thank goodness.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Religion, isolation, young ages--it's toxic stew.

Telling a 13 year old girl to get married is wrong, even if the girl agrees, because in that environment it is certainly coercion.

I would be A LOT more comfortable if the minimum age of marriage in FLDS was 18. I'm very uncomfortable at 16, even if it legal.

Btw, if a religious leader told me that my young daughter had to marry some guy, I would break his jaw. So I wouldn't do well in that system.

Many states allow girls to get married at 16 with a parent's consent.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by exUte

any religion needs to follow the law of the land. From what I understand it is against the law to wed at the age of 13/14 without a court order. From a medical perspective, getting pregnant at the age of 13 is NOT good.

I'm not familiar enough with Texas laws regarding marriage - my understanding was they need only 'parental permission' to marry at an age younger than 16.

Obviously, if you are correct regarding the laws, we'd need to change the ages around to better fit with the law of the land.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by exUte

Many states allow girls to get married at 16 with a parent's consent.

I'm sure MW had no idea about that.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

13 y.o. girl brainwashed into marriage=abuse. Kids that young shouldn't ever be getting married. The fact that she has been groomed for it her entire life changes nothing.

Same for the 17 y.o. The abuse is amplified by the fact that these are polygamous marriages.

If these girls really want to live polygamy, make them wait till age 21. What's the harm in that?

It'd be easier to regulate if the state legalized polygamy, but required a minimum age of 21.

You can't single out a religious group for marriage age. Can two gay 18 year olds get married in Massachussetts?

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by exUte

You can't single out a religious group for marriage age. Can two gay 18 year olds get married in Massachussetts?

If polygamy were legalized, you could have a different minimum age for polygamous marriages. You could classify it as a different institution--a union among 3 or more people.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by Adam

I don't think you would. I think you would agree and go along with it.

If you were called as a mission president. Then on your return you were placed into the 1st Quorum of 70. Then you were called into Pres. Monson's office and told it was God's will that your 16 year old daughter marry Elder Bednar (who's first wife had recently died tragically in a Yellowstone buffalo stampede accident). If he told you that he had received a revelation that it was God's will that Elder Bednar and your daughter would parent one of the two prophets who would eventually be killed in the streets of Jerusalem as foretold by scripture. If he wanted you to go talk to your daughter and convince her to marry Elder Bednar.

You would do it.

a wacko! YOu have some serious issues with the faith you supposedly believe in. I pity your girls.