Church Growth

[LackingOxygen]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

I disagree. Church is not to blame in my opinion.

On my mission, a large number of our concerts were mentally ill. I imagine it has been that way for generations.

Mike might be able to comment more on the genetics of mental illness.

Okay, maybe I'll retract the generalization and state that the church isn't necessarily the one to blame. But when you create a strict list of guidelines to follow and try to shape a political arena, social issues, and even tell people how to dress, the outcome can bring the "less than perfect" image onto the follower. The follower will then try to emulate more than they really are but fall short and need meds to build them back up.

[MikeWaters]

My experience on my mission is that you are much more likely to baptize a social outcast that anyone else.

When I was in Japan for a time, it seemed that all the male investigators and recent converts (the n is small here) were either mentally ill or weird.

I don't have a sense of whether Utahs are more or less mentally ill than anyone else. Even if they were, what would that mean? For example, blacks are much less likely to commit suicide in the US. But much MORE likely to commit homicide. Makes you a criminal, not mentally ill, but not really a better outcome.

Utah has less people in the entire state than live in my city.

The western US in general has higher rates of depression and suicide (against partly because there are more white people in the west).

Cultural explanations can get kind of pedantic. Like thin models are causing anorexia in the general population. But somehow can't stem the obesity crisis?

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

My experience on my mission is that you are much more likely to baptize a social outcast that anyone else.

I remember seeing a woman bear her testimony in the midst of a psychotic episode. All of us dumb missionaries stood there and did nothing while she kept saying absolutely crazy things (talking about visions and murder and suicide). Eventually some local members intervened and escorted her from the room. It was extremely sad.

I don't know why my ancestors converted except for the first Mormon male on my dad's side, who converted in 1832 only because of an ultimatum from his Mormon girlfriend.

[LackingOxygen]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

I don't know why my ancestors converted except for the first Mormon male on my dad's side, who converted in 1832 only because of an ultimatum from his Mormon girlfriend.

My grandparents on both sides were the first to convert in my family. My mother was merely a teenager when they did and my father was a lot younger. The issue they were having was the southern baptist movement at the time was giving them mishaps on their doctrine. My grandparents lost a set of twins an hour or so after birth and the missionaries told them families can be together forever when their southern baptist minister was telling them their babies went to hell. They were vulnerable and the neighborhood knew what was happening with them. Do I think it was inspired talk when they hit their doorstep? No, it was a social experience with the neighbors the missionaries had that pushed them to say it. When they said it, my grandparents were looking for anything to ease their pain.

[byupepsilover]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

I disagree. Church is not to blame in my opinion.

On my mission, a large number of our concerts were mentally ill. I imagine it has been that way for generations.

Mike might be able to comment more on the genetics of mental illness.

Never heard this theory before, but it makes perfect sense! I do think that the use of anti depressants and anti anxiety meds would decrease in Utah if a glass of wine were served with dinner

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

I disagree. Church is not to blame in my opinion.

On my mission, a large number of our concerts were mentally ill. I imagine it has been that way for generations.

Mike might be able to comment more on the genetics of mental illness.

Mental illness is one the worst understood ailments afflicting the human condition. It is possible that before the dawn of the industrial age, those with severe mental illness simply did not survive.

There are many forms of mental illness or conditions with which people live and survive. I don't see why you might believe religious people or a particular group of religious persons would be more likely subject to mental illness than others.

Mental illness may be analogous to a fabric, if you pull a thread, it may resurface somewhere else. It isn't as if empirical persons without religious belief don't suffer from a myriad of mental conditions and illnesses.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

I remember seeing a woman bear her testimony in the midst of a psychotic episode. All of us dumb missionaries stood there and did nothing while she kept saying absolutely crazy things (talking about visions and murder and suicide). Eventually some local members intervened and escorted her from the room. It was extremely sad.

I don't know why my ancestors converted except for the first Mormon male on my dad's side, who converted in 1832 only because of an ultimatum from his Mormon girlfriend.

Mike's statement gives one pause for thought.

However, conversion is usually tied to feeling something is missing emotionally. The Church fills an obvious or not so obvious emotional vacuum or need. Are you saying people with unsatisfied emotional needs are necessarily mentally ill?

My hope for the Church is for it to learn from Joseph Smith and to innovate so that it can lead rather than follow. My hope may be in vain.

There is amply evidence in the early foundation of the movement that woman could be included in leadership as priestesses. Much social good is achieved to the volunteer spirit, and allowing fifty percent of the race to participate at an equal level would be good for the culture. Currently the slowness in growth appears to be tied to lack of satisfying the needs of swaths of young people, who feel alienated by the social position of the Church.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Mike's statement gives one pause for thought.

However, conversion is usually tied to feeling something is missing emotionally. The Church fills an obvious or not so obvious emotional vacuum or need. Are you saying people with unsatisfied emotional needs are necessarily mentally ill?

My hope for the Church is for it to learn from Joseph Smith and to innovate so that it can lead rather than follow. My hope may be in vain.

There is amply evidence in the early foundation of the movement that woman could be included in leadership as priestesses. Much social good is achieved to the volunteer spirit, and allowing fifty percent of the race to participate at an equal level would be good for the culture. Currently the slowness in growth appears to be tied to lack of satisfying the needs of swaths of young people, who feel alienated by the social position of the Church.

All I'm saying is that if 10% of Mormon converts over the last 200 years had significant mental illness, it might increase the frequency of certain risk-associated polymorphisms / mutations within the Mormon community.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

All I'm saying is that if 10% of Mormon converts over the last 200 years had significant mental illness, it might increase the frequency of certain risk-associated polymorphisms / mutations within the Mormon community.

With that qualification, perhaps. Hard to argue the point.