Church Growth - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Archaea · 05-12-2014, 09:24 PM

It seems the LDS Church is missing the boat on a number of key issues.

First, Church growth has slowed significantly for us, but not for other churches such as the Seventh Day Adventists, who have seen their growth increase dramatically surpassing the LDS. It now claims 17 MM in adherents adding more than 1 MM per year. LDS are plodding along at 300 K for many decades. The growth simply isn't there.

Second, it took us decades to correct the wrongful approach to race. It was only recently the Church admitted BY got it wrong.

Third, we are now working with a hand tied by behind our backs, by denying women the priesthood, one that Joseph Smith was intent on sharing. Once again, we have Brigham Young to blame. He put the kabash on that sharing. It only took us more than a century to reverse his racist policy and now much longer to reverse his misogynistic policy against women.

I for one don't expend a large bureaucracy to get it right first. Organizations just don't do that. But to be frequently wrong and to stand by your error repeatedly? What gives?

MikeWaters · 05-12-2014, 09:42 PM

I would like to hear some good news. BYU sports doomed.

Church treading water.

My own ward shrinking as people move away and no one moves in.

Every baptism being some variation of an outcast or a weirdo. Whatever happened to baptisms of middle class families?

GIVE ME SOME GOOD NEWS!!!! WE NEED A SHOT IN THE ARM!!!

Archaea · 05-12-2014, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I would like to hear some good news. BYU sports doomed.

Church treading water.

My own ward shrinking as people move away and no one moves in.

Every baptism being some variation of an outcast or a weirdo. Whatever happened to baptisms of middle class families?

GIVE ME SOME GOOD NEWS!!!! WE NEED A SHOT IN THE ARM!!!

Your family is doing well.

But here is a link to showing we've been failing for at least a decade in comparison to the Seventh Day Adventists and the JWs.

http://www.cumorah.com/index.php?tar...t&chapter_id=6

http://www.adventiststatistics.org/

MikeWaters · 05-13-2014, 04:12 PM

It seems to me that JWs and 7thDays have much less visibility in American culture.

One reason may be that they don't have major college sports? HINT-HINT!!!!

Among my circle of acquaintances I can't name a single JW or SDA. I do see a few JW meeting buildings in town, so they have that visibility.

I do have a warm place in my heart for SDAs. I think it is a good religion. I am not as keen on the JW religion. I spoke to both SDAs and JWs on my mission and that's how I form my opinion.

As to our growth stagnation, I'm not sure it has a lot to do with the church or its members, but more to do with changes outside the church. The demographic that our church appealed to has shrunk. Whatever that was. We primarily offer the promise of an ecstatic experience. And we have no control over whether that happens for someone. So let's not place all the blame on ourselves. I don't meet people that are searching for religion.

SeattleUte · 05-18-2014, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I would like to hear some good news. BYU sports doomed.

Church treading water.

My own ward shrinking as people move away and no one moves in.

Every baptism being some variation of an outcast or a weirdo. Whatever happened to baptisms of middle class families?

GIVE ME SOME GOOD NEWS!!!! WE NEED A SHOT IN THE ARM!!!

To me this is all good news. The LDS Church and BYU getting their just deserts.

MikeWaters · 05-18-2014, 12:33 PM

Thank you for reminding me that the university of Utah sports programs are in the toilet. I feel better now.

SeattleUte · 05-19-2014, 04:45 AM

Yesterday was the 60th anniversary of Brown v. Board of Education and the 10th anniversary of the first same sex marriage in the United States (Mass). Were either of these milestones observed in your church sermons today?

SoonerCoug · 07-18-2014, 03:00 AM

Mike:

I've seen reports that Utah has very high rates of depression / mental illness.

People love to float the argument that the Church causes mental illness. I don't buy it.

I favor the hypothesis that a high number of mentally ill people converted over the last 180 years, acting as a form of artificial selection within the Mormon gene pool.

What is your opinion?

LackingOxygen · 07-18-2014, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

Mike:

I've seen reports that Utah has very high rates of depression / mental illness.

People love to float the argument that the Church causes mental illness. I don't buy it.

I favor the hypothesis that a high number of mentally ill people converted over the last 180 years, acting as a form of artificial selection within the Mormon gene pool.

What is your opinion?

I would venture to say it isn't so much the church is producing mental illness, but they are perpetuating it. When the lds church puts on a perfect member image (beautiful temples, chapels, humanitarian efforts, PR, malls, etc.) eventually is spills into the congregations. It's almost like if you don't drive a fancy vehicle with all of the features in it, then you haven't been valiant enough in your callings god has given you. In several of my professions, I have come across these people on many occasions. They need the outward approach to being perfect. They need the compliments from everyone to be complete (or have the illusion of being complete). This only can produce mentally I'll individuals that are always seeking help because they are not happy with anything. They are always chasing the next higher ground only to see there was another ground that was slightly higher. It's no wonder with reports in the recent years discovering that Utah county has the highest percentage of prescription drug abuse and subscribers in the country. They are depressed but put on a happy face while suffering. Gotta be the perfect peter priesthood or Molly mormon.

SoonerCoug · 07-18-2014, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LackingOxygen

I would venture to say it isn't so much the church is producing mental illness, but they are perpetuating it. When the lds church puts on a perfect member image (beautiful temples, chapels, humanitarian efforts, PR, malls, etc.) eventually is spills into the congregations. It's almost like if you don't drive a fancy vehicle with all of the features in it, then you haven't been valiant enough in your callings god has given you. In several of my professions, I have come across these people on many occasions. They need the outward approach to being perfect. They need the compliments from everyone to be complete (or have the illusion of being complete). This only can produce mentally I'll individuals that are always seeking help because they are not happy with anything. They are always chasing the next higher ground only to see there was another ground that was slightly higher. It's no wonder with reports in the recent years discovering that Utah county has the highest percentage of prescription drug abuse and subscribers in the country. They are depressed but put on a happy face while suffering. Gotta be the perfect peter priesthood or Molly mormon.

I disagree. Church is not to blame in my opinion.

On my mission, a large number of our concerts were mentally ill. I imagine it has been that way for generations.

Mike might be able to comment more on the genetics of mental illness.

05-12-2014, 09:24 PM	#1
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	Church Growth It seems the LDS Church is missing the boat on a number of key issues. First, Church growth has slowed significantly for us, but not for other churches such as the Seventh Day Adventists, who have seen their growth increase dramatically surpassing the LDS. It now claims 17 MM in adherents adding more than 1 MM per year. LDS are plodding along at 300 K for many decades. The growth simply isn't there. Second, it took us decades to correct the wrongful approach to race. It was only recently the Church admitted BY got it wrong. Third, we are now working with a hand tied by behind our backs, by denying women the priesthood, one that Joseph Smith was intent on sharing. Once again, we have Brigham Young to blame. He put the kabash on that sharing. It only took us more than a century to reverse his racist policy and now much longer to reverse his misogynistic policy against women. I for one don't expend a large bureaucracy to get it right first. Organizations just don't do that. But to be frequently wrong and to stand by your error repeatedly? What gives? __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

05-19-2014, 04:45 AM	#7
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	Yesterday was the 60th anniversary of Brown v. Board of Education and the 10th anniversary of the first same sex marriage in the United States (Mass). Were either of these milestones observed in your church sermons today? __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster

05-12-2014, 09:42 PM	#2
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I would like to hear some good news. BYU sports doomed. Church treading water. My own ward shrinking as people move away and no one moves in. Every baptism being some variation of an outcast or a weirdo. Whatever happened to baptisms of middle class families? GIVE ME SOME GOOD NEWS!!!! WE NEED A SHOT IN THE ARM!!!

05-13-2014, 04:12 PM	#4
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	It seems to me that JWs and 7thDays have much less visibility in American culture. One reason may be that they don't have major college sports? HINT-HINT!!!! Among my circle of acquaintances I can't name a single JW or SDA. I do see a few JW meeting buildings in town, so they have that visibility. I do have a warm place in my heart for SDAs. I think it is a good religion. I am not as keen on the JW religion. I spoke to both SDAs and JWs on my mission and that's how I form my opinion. As to our growth stagnation, I'm not sure it has a lot to do with the church or its members, but more to do with changes outside the church. The demographic that our church appealed to has shrunk. Whatever that was. We primarily offer the promise of an ecstatic experience. And we have no control over whether that happens for someone. So let's not place all the blame on ourselves. I don't meet people that are searching for religion.

05-18-2014, 12:33 PM	#6
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Thank you for reminding me that the university of Utah sports programs are in the toilet. I feel better now.

07-18-2014, 03:00 AM	#8
SoonerCoug Formerly known as MudPhudCoug Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Land of desolation Posts: 2,548	Mike: I've seen reports that Utah has very high rates of depression / mental illness. People love to float the argument that the Church causes mental illness. I don't buy it. I favor the hypothesis that a high number of mentally ill people converted over the last 180 years, acting as a form of artificial selection within the Mormon gene pool. What is your opinion?